Hudson's future bleak (Haydon, W. Times, 11/22)

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Knave, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. Ender

    Ender Member

    Sep 5, 2003
    Radnor
    whatever

    Quote:"Yeah, someone will point out the younger kids playing at other clubs. But it's only because the coaches had no alternative than to play them, and they happened to play well."

    They happened to play well? Yeah accidentally Jamil Walker and Dimani Ralph played REALLY well. The fact is those veterans from the early years are not as good in most cases as the products that our club systems are putting out now. You make it sound like anybody who is not a veteran is accidentally having success. Like "Woops, I scored again" (is this a brintney song? )
     
  2. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Some of you have no doubt read this before, but here is an article from Soccerr America on Ellinger that was written before Santino's group participated in the 2001 U17 World Championship.

    It has quotes from Ellinger and other luminaries talking about him as a potential MLS coach.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/mls/news/2000/12/05/ellinger_coaching_sa/

    Also, while it doesn't say so in this story, it should be noted that Ellinger's "year of MLS experience" is not actually a year. He joined the Crew as an assistant only after Tom Fitzgerald moved from assistant coach to head coach for the final 10 regular season games of the season. Before that, Fitz was the assistant coach.

    And, I'm still waiting for Tron to tell us where Ellinger's other pro experience prior to MLS came from. I could be wrong - in fact, I'd like to be - but I've yet to see any mention of other pro experience for Ellinger anywhere.
     
  3. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    but the most exciting news is the prospect of Real Miami ;)
     
  4. Ender

    Ender Member

    Sep 5, 2003
    Radnor
    I know that MLS is supposed to be designed to develop young american talent, and it has. I would also like to see it continue to harvest young coaching talent as well. I like ray and frank and all the other coaches from abroad (is canada abroad?) but I would like to see tams take a gamble on some young coaches in the us. I use guys like my buddy al mezger. Al has won the last two U-19 national championships with his club team and is an assistant at Villanova. Now obviously I use this as an example because I know him, but assume we all know an "AL". Shouldn't these be the guys we funnel into the mls as assistant coaches or a reserves coach so that there are more options when it is time to make a change. I still think guys like rongen and hudson are great coaches, but sometimes you just need new blood. I guess my point is I would like to see the coaching pool open up a bit so that when our young coaches turn 35-40 they have some experience under their belt. I mean when it comes time to replace arena at the national level, how many americans will be qualified to be on that list/ Just askin'.
     
  5. Libero6

    Libero6 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Florida
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Bradley, Sarachan, and Mooch are obvious picks along with Sigi (if he hasn't exploded by then) but I totally agree with you. MLS has been exemplary in it develpoment of young players and we should be doing the same with our young coaches.
     
  6. JAnderson14

    JAnderson14 New Member

    Oct 5, 2000
    Crofton, MD
    Otherwise it's a situation like Hudson's first year here, where he didn't even have a chance to run the team through practice or a game before the draft. That meant he didn't know what really needed addressing, and was a factor in our awful 2002 season. This change can't be left to wait. If we're sticking with Hudson, we need to do that now and show a little more respect for him (i.e. invite him to the Adu signing). Regardless of who the coach is, he does need to feel wanted to do a good job, right? And if we're not bringing him back, we need to put someone in place who has at least some degree of familiarity with the team...it's probably too late to do it even now, ideally.

    There's still a lot of player movement around Draft Day...it's agreed we need to make some changes, and the best time to do that is around the draft.

    Before I get into the actual player choices, a stopper/sweeper alignment stops working well in lower level Div. 1 college soccer, if not in high school.

    Now then:

    1. Earnie Stewart is not a stopper. He is not a defender in any way, shape, or form. He's an attacking player. His mindset and physical attributes are not at all correct for a defender, and there's no way he ever plays a game in defense for any team in the world.

    2. Eskandarian was ineffective as a forward this season. I doubt you'll find anyone able to prove otherwise. He's at least another season away from being even an above average forward in MLS. He should not start ahead of Cerritos or Martins.

    3. Throwing a 14 year old to the wolves as a starter would be an unmitigated disaster for the player and the team. No 14 year old is ready for regular minutes in MLS, regardless of skill level. Adu has never played a real match at the speed of play in MLS. He's never played a real game against players of the athletic attributes found in MLS. In short, he's never played a real game with full grown men. Starting him would end with him injured and the team, once again, not scoring. Starting him alongside Eskandarian would mean our best hope is for 0-0 draws, unless you plan on getting a time machine to bring back the 2005-2006 versions of them

    4. I saw Jerry White play against MD, and wasn't impressed. If Brian Carroll can't get a game for DC, then White might not even be allowed inside RFK.

    Neither of them plays catenaccio...in fact, no one really does any more. "Catenaccio" doesn't automatically mean "defensive"...defensive is a mindset. Sorry, I feel like nitpicking.

    I don't think we automatically set out to play defensive that often, as much as our offense has been so non-threatening that we're forced onto the back foot. We don't keep the ball, so how can we ever attack? Remember, Hudson's Miami Fusion were probably the most attractive, pure attacking team MLS has ever seen. The difference is that they could play keep-away with any team in the league...our offense, because it was so predictable, could barely keep the ball for more than 30 seconds.

    Now, that's not saying we haven't been overly defensive at times. There were several games that our midfield would do a decent to good job of keeping the ball and moving it dangerously. In those games, we still seemed a little cautious about moving forward. However, I still feel that it was our offense that was the main reason we spent so much time defending.

    So, to sum up, our current problems are almost all offensive. Our defensive problems are linked to our offense being so weak.

    I think anyone in MLS would take Sarachan right away. However, I strongly doubt he'd leave a great situation in Chicago to inherit a completely unsure situation here. If we could do that, it would be the best acquisition this team has made since Moreno in the middle of '96.

    While the second paragraph is quite true these days, the first one isn't. Ralph, Noonan, Clark, Dunivant...these guys didn't "happen" to play well. Out of them, only Clark was the sure thing as far as being able to start in MLS and succeed. The rest were given good coaching and the chance to prove themselves. Out of that list, I think Carroll was the one most deserving of a chance to start. Stokes had the obstacle of being behind some good players in central defense, but Carroll? He's the only natural defensive midfielder we have outside of Namoff (and even he's debatably a "natural"). This season saw Kovalenko, Nelsen, Alegria, Namoff, and even Stewart play defensive midfield...why not Carroll? It couldn't have gone any worse, and he would have taken a lot out of a chance to start.

    More than that, though, is whether they should have been subbed in. And on that count, both Stokes and Carroll should have been given time in several games. They didn't even have to look for games where the result is already determined...how will we know if they're any good under pressure without putting them there? Stokes, again, would be less likely to see time simply because you don't change a defense unless you have to through injury or because you're sending on a midfielder/forward to help a comeback. Carroll, though...I think he should have been given at least 10 appearances overall.
     
  7. writered21

    writered21 Member+

    Jul 14, 2001
    Middle of the Road
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Extremely Long Post ... Sorry

    DT, I read your post, I just didn't quote it so as to not make this one insane-long. It was a great read.

    Just a few points to close out my comments on this discussion.

    1) Bradley is exactly the type of coach Adu doesn't need. New York is the last place I want to see Adu play - not because of any feelings about the MetroStars one way or another (and it's no secret I don't think Bradley is that great), but that atmosphere is not at all the right one for him. I know Eddie Gaven had a good year in 2003, but he didn't come in with 1% of the expectations that Adu is in 2004. We've seen the ups and downs of the Metros for 8 years, and this year, in their biggest games (the Open Cup final and their playoff series), they again came up short. That club has poisoned some otherwise solid players, Adu doesn't need it.

    2) I'm not saying Ellinger shouldn't be hired because Hudson and Trask should be retained. I don't know if Hudson should stay or not - there simply isn't enough information out there right now for me to make that decision. I want to see the personnel moves first. Yes, it was Ray's decision to bring Hristo in - hell, he wanted do it prior to the 2002 season. But I also know he knows he's made a mistake. I think with Hudson at command and no Marco, no Hristo, you see a very different, much better club next season - as several players could move to more normal positions and play there on a consistent basis. But I don't know if he's going to get that chance.

    3) Trading Kovalenko would be a monumental mistake. Say what you want about Dema's "temper" or his tackling - if he wasn't on this team this year, the club would have been so much worse. He is an absolute central cog in this team and must be kept. That said, I would not have a problem if Prideaux was traded. With Stokes in the wings and Reyes coming back, I don't think dealing BP would be that big an issue, and I think they could get something worthwhile in return.

    4) No, my logic does not suggest that a foreign coach would have been better in 1996 than Bruce Arena, in so much as you could find no coaches with MLS experience in 1996. Every coaching decision made before the first season was somewhat of a crapshoot ... no one knew how the league would play out, if the players were worth a darn, if the fans would show up, and to be fair, if the league would even be around 4 years from then. With the league having played 8 years and seemingly on a ground where it will be around for at least another 8, there's no reason to invest the job of coaching this club - this storied, wonderful, shoot for the stars club, to a youth coach with 10 games of professional experience as an assistant.

    5) I think Fitzgerald would be a fine option. He had a winning record with the Crew, although admittedly, that club never got to that ultimate level. But given what our club has done the last four seasons, you can't think Fitzgerald would have been any less successful. If Ellinger's success with the national team counts for something, than Fitzgerald's impeccable record at UCLA, including the 2002 national championship, should count for something, too. I'll put it this way, if Fitzgerald were this team's coach next season, I'd GUARANTEE that not only do they make the playoffs, but they do so as a top-2 seed in the Eastern Conference. As good or bad as Ellinger may be, I would never make that statement with him at the helm. I don't know if I'd like Schmid here, if he were available. I'd be comfortable though not thrilled with Myernick, though he has led a team to the final - which is something you can't say for Fitzgerald.

    The only way I'd be for Ellinger is if it came down to a choice between he and Dave Dir. Then, and only then, do I say, hire Ellinger, but not before.

    If the choice comes down to keeping Hudson or hiring Ellinger, I'd really like to see the personnel moves coming before having to make that choice. I'd lean toward keeping Hudson at this point in time.

    Cheers and I hope you make the Happy Hour,
    Ed
     
  8. Dave Brother

    Dave Brother New Member

    Jun 10, 2001
    Alexandria
    Re: Re: Extremely Long Post ... Sorry

    Wow, pretty long post.
    Ray will be back, and DCU WILL kick major arse next season.

    Nuff said.
     
  9. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Re: Re: Extremely Long Post ... Sorry

    I'm not sure this make sense, let the current coach make some personnel decisions and if you don't like them get rid of him and saddle a new coach with these decisions. I'm assuming you'd give Ray the season to see if his personnel moves shake out, but I read it as if you don't like the moves, you'd like to see Ray go immeditely and a new guy brought in. I'm sure that's not what you meant.

    I'm with you as towards Ellinger. Personally I think there are better options out there. Myernick would be very good, has experience in the league and with young players. My personal choice would be Mo Johnston, I just have a feeling baout this guy that he will be a successful coach. I would rather have that happen here rather than in Dallas. 2 other guys who should be looked at are Denis Hamlett, who is the assistant in Chicago and Brian Bliss in KC.

    Oh and one last point, Bradley would be a great coach for Adu, just not in NY. I agree that the atmosphere there is pretty toxic, but I think that will change more in the next season. NY would be very hard for Adu, but Bradley would be a great coach.
     
  10. Allan Quatermain

    Oct 23, 2001
    The Lost City of Gol
    Club:
    DC United
    You are correct about Hudson. But not about Rongen. It was certainly awful to lose games under him. But if there is one thing that can be said about those teams, it is that they played beautiful, attacking soccer. Those games were fun to watch, both in 1999 when we won, and the following two years when we didn't.

    Under Hudson our offensive approach has been dreadful. A large (very large, I think) part of that is due to having had Ben Olsen and Milton Reyes injured for so much of the last two years.

    But it also has to do with the gameplan set down by the coach. And it has been fairly dreadful.

    AQ
     
  11. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Folks, I don't know why Glenn Myernick's name even gets mentioned when we're talking about a coach to replace Ray ASAP.

    Myernick is NOT going to give up coaching the U23 team in the Olympics to take the United gig. He's just not.

    If he medals over there - and with the talent the US has at the U23 level, for the first time medaling is a realistic possibility - he will be able to have his pick of coaching jobs the coming fall, either an expansion team (well, likely not Chivas) or after Greg Andrulis and anybody else gets fired.

    He's not going to give up coacing such a talented group of US players to take over United. Period. And when you toss in all the public and intermal pressure there will be to play the kid, the job is even less appealing.

    I still think Curt Onalfo is the frontrunner. He's family - two years as a DCU player, two more as an assistant - and is endorsed by The Bruce. Toss in the year he's had as Bruce's assistant this year and he has more experience as an assistant than Frank Yallop had when he took over the Quakes and Bob Bradley had when he took over th Fire. (Bradley had lots of head coaching at the college level and Yallop had way more experience as a player, but it's not like Onafo's not qualified.

    Ellinger would not be a bad choice and obviously the Freddy situation makes it intriguing, but I think there are more guys with more pro experience than Ellinger out there right now.

    Oh, and while it isn't the sexiest choice, I wouldn't object to Tom Fitzgerald. He has pro experience that I'm sure he's learned from and he's doing great at the college level. He's won NCAA titles at the Division I AND D-II levels and looks set to make a run for another one this year. (UCLA's first NCAA tournament game is tomorrow.)

    Obviously, if he can win consistently at the college level, he knows how to deal with kids and he knows the college game for scouting. He's tight with Ellinger so you know he'll get the straight read on the strengths and weaknesses of the Bradenton players.

    That said, he seems pretty content at UCLA and he can likely keep that job for life. He's done the MLS thing and unless not having won some pro hardware is really gnawing at him, I don't see him leaving the best job in college soccer for the turmoil and uncertainty of MLS.
     
  12. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Sigi staying on means that there's one less coaching slot to be filled.
     

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