Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere I think this post is a bit harsh. I had never been much of a clark fan until the Confederations Cup, but he really did play incredibly well by anyones standards. I think that if you were to rewatch the games that Clark started he looks very active, and his confidence grows as the tournament goes on. I do agree that tactically he gets caught out occasionally, but he's not a lost cause by any means. Also, I kept waiting for him to cough up the ball when he was in possession, but as a holding mid he distributed pretty well overall. In his current form he could go to Livorno and play, and if he manages to make the move he'll be BB's 3rd or 4th choice behind Jones and MB.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere I've just accepted the fact that a large minority of BigSoccer hates Ricardo Clark, even if he goes over to Livorno and plays well he'll still have his detractors. Hell, he could shutdown Mexico at the Azteca on August 12th and there will be negatives things to say about him.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere They are the same people who dont see the value in Brian Ching. Nobody said either of these guys were world beaters. Target forward and 'destroyer' are two necessary spots on a roster to take on the different formations and styles of world teams. And both of these players represent solid options at those positions. Maybe they are just dynamo haters.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere And when a USMNT player is rumored to go abroad, there are inevitably posts about how he's not as good as "world class player X." I mean really, 90% of the holding midfielders in Serie A aren't as good as Gatusso or Pirlo, etc. Watch the Serie A teams in the bottom half of the table, and you'll come away with the feeling that Ricardo Clark could start for quite a few of them. Ricardo's being linked to Livorno (a club which which is favored to go right back down to Serie B after next season), not Roma.................and there's a reason.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Clark's been in the Nats pool for years and has both shown his quality and his flaws in previous international appearances. I think most people would agree that he if he wasn't solidly ahead of Mastro at the beginning of the Confed Cup, he is now. Not buying this ridiculous assessment of Clark as a purely athletic player with no tactical sense. Gattuso runs all over the field winning the ball and stopping counterattacks, often by viciously hacking opponents. somehow that makes him a tactical genius, while Clark plays in a similar fashion, for less glorious sporting brands, so he's just some kind of athletic idiot savant. that idea both overrates Gattuso's tactical brilliance and insults Clark's ability to read the game at the elite level.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere I'm sure both of these comments are directed to me. If you read the Nats forums, I defend Ching harder than anybody else on the boards. As far as Clark, I went out of my way in this thread to praise what he brings to the national team. But I tempered that by saying I think he's pretty much a finished product and doesn't have the game to succeed in one of the top leagues in Europe. I don't think that makes me a Clark Hater. It makes me a realist. I really can't stand the typical Big Soccer attitude that if a poster doesn't think that every single member of the National Team pool is the second comming of Jesus then that poster hates said player. It's stupid to live in such extremes. I'm somewhere towards the middle on most all subjects. With Clark, a good national team player doesn't automatically mean that a player will be good in Europe. Ching is the perfect example of this point.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Yeah, but Gattuso is Italian and Clark his American. Therefore, ergo, as you can see in Exhibit A, Ricardo Clark has no ability to read the game at an elite level. (I have no idea if he can or he can't, seeing as he's played very few matches at that level. I don't know how anybody could.) Listen guys...........he's being linked to Livorno..........not Manchester United. We don't need to analyze whether he's the second coming of Roy Keane.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Has anyone considered that going to a situation where one has to work on one's weaknesses could be beneficial for a player?
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere that's just crazy talk. I will be honest, i don't value clark very highly. If i ws bob he would be the 2nd or 3rd CM/DM in the depth chart. He did look okay in the confed cup, but i think he didn't do too well against brazil on the final. Now of course if he were to play in europe and improve then yeah i will reconsider my view on him, but right now i still see him as a just above average MLS player.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere if you don't rate him highly, then why say he's 2nd or 3rd CM/DM? Saying he's better than Edu and Mastro (depending on BB's WC selection order) and equal to Feilhaber is essentially saying he's a potential starter for any lower-half team in the top 4 Euro leagues. Not a negative rating in my book.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Right, I mean honestly, how stupid are some of you people!? They'd have to be the 2nd-24th (and so on) coming of Christ. Learn to count...
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere You don't pay much attention to the EPL, do you? All it takes to succeed in England is "blood and thunder" - hard tackles, hard work, lots of running, lots of enthusiasm. "Blood and thunder" by itself is not enough to make it at a top EPL club (not good enough for most middling clubs either), but it's enough to make it in a bottom feeder club and it's enough to become a fan favorite. Watford, Reading, Derby, and West Brom all could have used a player like Clark when they were in the EPL. They may well have gotten themselves relegated anyway, but Clark would still likely have been useful to them. I don't watch much Serie A, but I can easily believe that in a more technical league like that, Clark probably doesn't have the technical ability and the ability to read the game necessary to succeed. But plenty of successful EPL players don't have it either. As for finished product, I hope we can just agree to disagree. I think that an intelligent, hard working, properly coached player can continue improving his game all the way until the day he's too old and too tired to play. Brian McBride, Teddy Sheringham, Paul Scholes, and Ryan Giggs all managed to keep improving even in their 30s. It's not at all common, I'll give you that, and maybe Clark personally isn't intelligent enough or hard working enough to do it, I'll give you that too. But it happens sometimes. It's possible. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a hater. I also don't think you're a realist. I think you're a cynic. It's one thing to say he won't make it in Italy, but it's another thing entirely to say he won't make it anywhere.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere I respect your opinion. I really do. But if all it took was "blood and thunder" to succeed in the EPL (even the lower levels) 75% of MLS would be good enough for West Brom. Clarke is an exceptional MLS player. He has attributes that are beneficial to the national team. MLS is played at an extremely high tempo, and requires incredible athleticism to truly excell. EPL requires a fast speed of thought and the game switches tempos. It switches tempos from 0 to 100 MPH in the blink of an eye, and for a player that relies more on his athleticism to react to the game, he would get caught out too often to really succeed. We'll have to agree to disagree, but being an above average player on a shit team really isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, nor does it spell sucess in my book. I'm sure several people will read this and just jump to the conclusion that I hate Clark. Nothing could be further from the truth. But hey...you can only live at one extreme or the other on Big Soccer.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere So, what you're saying is that you want to make love to him?
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere I wouldn't say it's 75%, but I'd bet a deceht amount of MLS players could make English rosters at the bottom half of the prem or championship. Not the MLS bench players, who are really USL caliber players willing to play for nothing at an MLS level. But do I think Chad Marshall could play for West Brom? Sure, i do. Do I think Landon Donovan could play for West Brom? Sure, I do. Do I think Kenny Cooper could play for West Brom? Sure, I do. Do I think Robbie Rogers could play for West Brom? Sure I do. Do I think Sacha Kljetan could play for West Brom? Sure I do I'm not saying they'd be stars. I'm not saying they'd even be starters. But I watch some of these players on clubs at the bottom half of the Serie A, Bundesliga, EPL, and La Liga.......and think..........this guy's not as good as Santino Quaranta. We're not asking ourselves whether Ricardo is good enough for AC Milan......he's being linked to Livorno. He's certainly good enough for Livorno. And he can go there and hopefully improve his game. Because right now, if you're a central midfielder........you need to be aiming to get to the highest level possible if you want to represent the USMNT. Your competition is playing in the Bundesliga (Bradley, Jones), SPL (Edu who'll also get to play in the Champions League, hopefully ), one of the best teams in the Western Hemisphere over the past 5 years (Torres at Pachuca), etc. etc. Being a solid MLS midfielder like Clark and Beckerman will get you caps, but not the big, important ones.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere You're talking about the elite of MLS. Do you think that Bryan Namoff could play for West Brom? How about Jesse Marsch? Or Chris Rolfe? How about Steffani MIglioranzi? Colin Clarke? It takes a shitload more than "blood and thunder" to play at the EPL level. That is the point Ricardo is an elite MLS player, but even at Livorno, he would be playing in a league that would require him to read the game at a faster level than he currently is capable of. Could he learn to read the game faster? Potentially? Is Livorno going to continue to play a guy that is continually out of position and is stretching the team shape to the breaking point while he's learning? Probably not.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Comments from Livorno's sporting director, Nelso Ricci: "Donovan won't come to Italy until December. Clark, however, can be an immediate solution since he has a different contract situation." http://www.sportal.it/news/news642716.html
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Doesn't really seem to me that Serie A is more difficult than the Confed Cup level. Clark seemed to manage just fine there.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere Simon Elliott at Fulham put a major ? in your argument!
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere That would depend on if you thought Simon Elliot was at the level of Chad Marshall or Bryan Namoff when he left for Fulham.
Re: Ricardo Clark Transfer Rumors: Livorno and Elsewhere I think Ricardo Clark will do fine at Serie A and he'll bring a winner's mentality to Livorno. I also think a lot of folks here tend to underestimate how well Clark reads the game. He's not like Claudio Reyna was, but he's not just an athletic kid out there.