It's really unquestionable that we are getting ridiculously unfair treatment when it comes to cards (bradley's red complete joke, sasha and clark's were both yellows, spector and donovan's yellows were also complete jokes). So here's my theory: We don't complain. Could you imagine if one of those absurd reds happened to, let's say, Italy? There would be an instant swarm of players pleading and yelling at the ref as if he just threatened to kill their mothers. Our players barely say a word (Note: This is comendable behavior, but sadly is not going to help us win). Also wheres Bradley in all this? How many times have we heard foreign managers single out refs for screwing them over? If he had made a row about Clark being sent off because of an anti-American bias, or even just general ineptitude, I think they would have thought twice before sending off Sasha or Bradley. And trust me, I don't like people b*tching and complaining anymore than you guys, and part of me likes that we aren't the drama queens the Italians are, but the fact of the matter is we are getting shafted because of our complacency. You could compare this to diving, which I also hate, but recognize that if you don't do it then you are putting yourself at a competative disadvantage, because the other team will. Anyway, that's my theory.
I somewhat agree. Keep in mind though several things. 1. The US often plays a high-impact hustle style that referees take note of immediately as potentially dangerous. When a no-nonsense midfielder runs around full speed for 30 minutes then whacks a guy for his first foul, he's going to get harsher treatment than a slower, less involved player. 2. The players we've been up against in Italy, Brazil, and Spain are good at making a foul look like a felony. No problems with Egypt - coincidence? 3. We aren't as respected worldwide as Italy, Brazil, and Spain so in that split second, the 50/50 calls are going to go 60/40. Just my opinions...
The reason behind this is that there are two sets of rules in soccer right now: One set for the superstars, who cannot be touched, and one set for everyone else. It's bullshit, but FIFA wants to protect the stars. When's the last time you saw an NFL game? You can't even touch a star quarterback anymore. Same thing.
I don't know if I agree w/ the OP. I've never once seen a ref give a straight red only to change his mind and give a yellow after the players complain to him. Does that happen?
No I'm not talking about changing that specific call, just setting a precedant for future calls. I think refs are naturally disinclined to issue harsh decisions if they know they would have to deal with criticism about it afterwards. They know now they can book us whenever they so please and not have to deal with any fallout what so ever. Good point about the superstars. That's something we see in the NBA too (notice how often Phil Jackson complained about the refs). It's just really frustrating, especially because we're now left without one of our most consistent players for the final.
I think we have to be careful in trying to direct blame away from the players, as been said, the U.S plays a style of game that's gonna get players into trouble and if you're trying to tell me that the Ricardo Clark or Kjlestan cards were unfair then I have to laugh, those were reckless challenges, and the players making those sort of tackles need to pull their heads out of their a$$e$. Do I think the Bradley tackle was a yellow? Yes, but it doesn't matter what I think, it only matters what the schmuck in the yellow shirt thinks. If their calling a game a certain way, then you adapt your game accordingly, just like players in baseball do when they realize the umpire's strikezone is a little bizarre. Put the blame where it belongs, on the shoulders of the player making the decision.
Our guys are getting more sophisticated on the diving, though. (And I also have mixed emotions about it.) One thing that's funny is that you can tell they are still learning to do it well. They get it right initially with the fall and the rolling around grabbing the offended body part. But then they get up too quickly, and you can tell from their facial expressions they're a little embarrassed by the show they just put on.
Which means they actually have some integrity and respect for themselves and the game, and that they don't pull the sh!t that El Salvador did.
The problem I have is that getting a red card is almost an expected part of the game for us. Someone pointed this out yesterday. There have been 13 matches so far in the Confed Cup. 3 red cards have been issued. All to the United States. 5 red cards in our last 6 FIFA matches. I'm willing to accept that we will get called for fouls more than others. But honestly, no other reds shown in this tournament but we get 3 straight reds, 2 of which, IIRC were the first fouls committed by the player? Yesterday's game was not particularly physical I thought. Most of our all out effort was spent on blocking shots. Statistically speaking, it just doesn't seem likely to me that the US is THAT much more physical than other teams.
For the whole tournament count how many times a defender has slid directly into the attacker for a tackle. Three times that I've seen. Three red cards. It would be another thing if other teams were making similar challenges and nothing came of it.
The ref wasn't calling the game a certain way, though. Larrionda was doing pretty well until that call, which came out of nowhere.
the main problem with the cards is the inconsistency shown by the referees. Shortly after Clark's red, for example, LD was elbowed to the head...no card, let alone a red. He wasn't hit hard, but that is not the point...he should have been given a card even if he missed. What makes that one even worse is that it would have given the referee an easy way to "even it out". (I am not in favor of evening things out if it is not legitimate, but it happens)
A side note, but none of those three tackles would ever be red in U.S. youth soccer. I wonder, are other countries different? Because here, a youth midfielder is pretty much trained to make those type of tackles, as they are highly effective at intimidating the opposition and the penalty is never more than a yellow (and not always a card at that). Any star player, that is the type who might become a future national player, comes flying in like that each and every game.
Don't wanna argue about any "conspiracies" or anything like that, just my two cents. Sometimes your players are way too innocent. You already got two reds in the group stage and still you kept trying some risky tackles. With super-slow-motion replays we can see that those challenges weren't worthy of a red card, but the referee doesn't get the privilege of technology, he must make his decision from what he saw in a split second, from whatever angle . That's why you should avoid making those harsher tackles, only use sliding tackles as a last resort because when you do one of those you are always at risk of getting carded. That's football common sense. Since you lack experience I understand, our youngsters tend to commit the same mistake in the beginning but with time they learn. You should do the same, learn from your mistakes, instead of "hunting witches". If you do that you will grow more and more from each match you participate. Anyway, congrats for this great result and I *hope* that we will see eachother in the finals again.
Yet we have a player red carded in the Olympics for an elbow that looked like he was just trying to turn his body and shield a guy.
We earned 75% of the red cards http://www.fifa.com/confederationscup/statistics/teams/disciplinary.html
It is also worth noting that when the US appealed Clark's suspension, several Italian players, including Gattuso (who was on the receiving end of the foul), stated that his tackle did not warrant a red card. I haven't heard about anything similar with the other two red cards, but there is at least one where the guy who got tackled agrees we got screwed.
R. Clark=definate yellow. HARSH red -R. Clark showed no intention of trying to hurt the player by not following through with the tackle. thus, it's just a yellow in my book. Kljestan=most of the time red. could have gotten lucky with just a yellow. -this was a completely reckless tackle. Bradley=not even a damn foul -all ball. Larrionda sucks ...we just have to face the fact that if there's a 0.000001% chance of it being a red than we will get red. we'll never get the benefit of the doubt and the sooner we realize this the better
I've seen a ref do the opposite...in a Everton vs Liverpool match within the last year or two...the ref didn't seem like he was gonna give a red (don't remember what for exactly, but the player was Phil Neville) until Gerrard starting whining at him and some of the other Liverpool players joined in and then he finally showed the red to Neville Did you see the South Africa vs Brazil SF that finished a little while ago? This whole tournament players have been making tackles just as bad or worse than what we've been redded for....yet the only red not to the US was the red to Egypt (for the handball on the line).
You're right. I'm wrong. That SA guy made the same tackle the US guys have been thrown out for 3 times. He only got a yellow.
Contrary to what many have been saying, I think much of the criticism the referees are getting is warranted and effective. Apart from the glaring bias against the US team is receiving (regardless of the naivete of American players for making the 2nd and 3rd challenges), I know from personal experience that the media reads this board closely. The most recent example is how often media pundits have echoed statements written on these boards verbatim regarding the lack of passion and heart in the last showings by the U.S. The culmination of which had an obvious affect on the NT players. It really moved me to see BB's eyes glow near tears after the miracle victory knowing full well how many people questioned his leadership before and how hard the players worked to support him and themselves with the win. Continue to convey your uproar and I am certain that USSoccer will eventually be spurned by our support and love for the NT.
it is half that our guys are working and charging VERY hard and half that we do not get respect as a "major" soccer power. A bit of both I believe.
That would be fine, except for the fact that the 'name' players (Puyol comes to mind) DO get to perform these sliding tackles. The refs can't see them any better than they can see it when the US does them, but we get a red card and they get nothing.