The Official Ricardo Clark Play discussion thread (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ty webb, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. supersoft

    supersoft Member

    May 3, 2002
    Baltimore
    Marquez raises his right foot as high as he can, actually turns his body so that his foot is even with his knee, then pushes as his cleats make contact. It's kind of a clever way to disguise his intent by making it look like he was avoiding contact while actually doing more damage. It's even more clear cut as a red than Clark, with benefit of replay, but probably harder to spot in real time. Kudos to the ref on that one.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cD8szbc4Es"]YouTube - expulcion de rafa marquez MEX.0-E.U.-2[/ame]

    (edit - I think it's a clear cut 100% red, the only question is whether the ref sees it)
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure, I agree with that. And if the Clark tackle is a red, then the Gross elbow should be a red.

    But soccer's like this. It's this way in the best leagues in the world. Reffing ain't easy.
     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure, I agree with your assessment. I don't think there was an intent to injure Howard there, just disrupt him so that he'd drop it or not make the challenge properly.

    I know it's not the same situation, but just pointing out we have in fact gotten some calls like this to go our way. The ref could easily have given Marquez a yellow in that instance, because I don't think he was necessarily in the best position to see Rafa's clandestine activities.

    What are players thinking out there when they do stuff like this? It must just be some gut reaction at the second telling the player, "DON'T LET GATUSSO GO FREE!" I mean, the guy was going nowhere. It was really a silly challenge. Just like Mastroeni's in 06. Not vicious. Not a clear-cut red, probably a yellow would have been more appropriate after seeing it a million times on the replay. Just stupid and "red-cardable." You can't count on the ref to see things your way. All the ref saw in that split second was Clark kick out with his leg in a manner where he clearly wasn't going for the ball. He clipped the guy right on the knee, and Gatusso went flying. In slo-mo it doesn't look all that bad. The contact wasn't all that great. But in real-time you can't count on the ref to see it your way.
     
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    absolutely, reffing ain't easy.

    nor is it easy to be a cool, calm and controlled player in all situations.

    I do think that a yellow would have sent the necessary and appropriate message to and punishment for Clark in this instance. (especially given the other decisions/non-decisions made by the ref over what was actually a very even and enjoyable game. these teams match up well. I'd love it if the USA and Italy squared off in the second round at some point in an upcoming WC. I'd love it even more if both teams finished up with 11 men on the field.)

    back to this FCC match, Clark lost his head briefly and made a bad decision (on how high to tackle/kick Gattuso).

    I saw that as a yellow. I can see why the ref saw that as a red. but just as I don't agree with Clark's decision completely (on the option for the height of the kick -- or on making the kick in the first place, but I can see why he arrived late in that challenge), I also don't agree with Pozo's decision (on red and not yellow).

    {but then again, all of these thoughts are easy and cheap to have and type from the comfort of my chair.}
     
  5. Albirrojo

    Albirrojo Member

    Aug 27, 2004
    I'll go you one better, earlier this year in Italy, an Irishman was bloodied and the Italian sent off early in the game and Italy played the large part of that game down to 10 men. I know many Italians thought that was a severe call. The Republic of Ireland player got bloodied in a way reminiscent to what happened to McBride but certainly, the incident in Italy vs. Ireland was milder.

    The more I look at this, things move quickly on the pitch but Clarke was very reckless.

    I wonder too, if this whole incident might reflect on the way we Americans do look at the game. I honestly say, a lot of this play can go by my head. Our understanding in many cases is different than the way Europeans or South Americans might see things.

    Lucas Neill anyone in the play in Australia against Italy in the World Cup where Grosso tripped. .. in other words, Australia is a bit like the USA in that it is not a soccer-first country.

    This is why, in the end, I don't think who wins these tournaments is necessarily the best, because countries have different styles and emphasize different aspects of the game.
     
  6. Chitown Catracho

    Chitown Catracho New Member

    Oct 13, 2004
    Chicago, IL
    Yes, that's why I say it was "red cardable", and not that it was definitely a red card. Some saw it as a yellow, I think it could've been a yellow, but when you kick a player on a hard slide in the knee then a red is not unwarranted.
     
  7. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    I'd like to see where it says in the Laws of the Game that where a kick is specifically delivered on an opponent's leg has any relevance to the type of card (if any) that should be given.

    yes, it was a high challenge and a late challenge. but Gattuso was fine. the ref (imo) could have very easily made a decision to keep it 11v11 at that point.

    as has been pointed out, the ref made many calls and non-calls (and issued a total of 4 cards in the match), and certainly this red card for Clark had a huge effect on the match. in my view, the punishment (red card) was too harsh for the offense (even if it was "red cardable" by whatever definition).

    Clark should/could have shown better judgment in his decision as a player, and Pozo should/could have shown better judgment in his decision as the official.

    it will be interesting to see if Fifa (or their referee review committee or whomever) comes out with any comment or assessment of this match (and that specific call/card). I doubt we'll see or read anything on it, but it would be informative.

    Egypt is protesting their red card (of the hand-ball on the line -- which looked to be pretty obvious and an easy call). wonder if the US is considering protesting/appealing Clark's red card.
     
  8. Albirrojo

    Albirrojo Member

    Aug 27, 2004
    OK, all, I found the video of the Italy/Ireland draw where the Italian was carded and sent off in what may have been as early as the 3rd minute of that game:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCgzAUn_rYw&NR=1"]YouTube - Espulsione di Pazzini 3 minuto di gioco Coppa del mondo Italia-Irlanda HQ[/ame]

    This game ended in a draw with a late goal by Ireland to tie up 10 man Italy.

    Roundly, you will find Italian fans who feel that call gave Italy a bad deal.

    So, in fact, what goes around comes around. As I pointed out earlier, it seems Clark has a bit of a problem in this area. Now, I'm not sure what to think, unless I really studied the game.

    The thing is, is it will be difficult for the US to advance with our next game versus Brazil and finishing up against 6 times African Champ Egypt who sometimes plays very well but in the African qualifiers is presently having some trouble.

    We had bad luck, that second goal was a bit of bad luck. Difficult but maybe a valuable lesson for the World Cup if we make it of which I'd be confident.
     
  9. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I also thought it looked like Clark tried to pull out of it after he realized he was so far off from the ball. It didn't look like he put any weight behind the kick. Not saying it wasn't still dumb by Clark though.
     
  10. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know, there's been plenty of good arguments on both sides. Just 'cause you speak in CAPS doesn't make you sane and others silly.
     
  11. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's why I say:
    CAP WRITING IN CAPS NOW!!!
     
  12. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a str8 Red.

    But it is the U.S. team dealing with half wit refs, so crap like this comes with the badge.
     
  13. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Marquez call is clearly a different issue, as its a studs out kick. Had Clark shown studs, it would have been a clear red. Studs matter a great deal, as studs out tackles are pretty strictly prohibited. As I recall, Mastroeni's take got him a red in the WC not because it was late or hard, but because he showed his studs to make it.

    Clark's was a hard late foul. The raising of the leg was more to make sure he caught the Italian player then anything else, and probably was the only reason the ref even thought red. But a yellow and a talking to would have been sufficient, I dont know why a ref would choose a red in that situation.

    Its a bizarre call in light of him seeing and passing on the elbow call. Elbows are strictly prohibited, and almost shouldn't be a choice on whether you call a red. To decide on anything but a red on that, but not on Clark's challenge is bizarre. Hes electing to show lenincy on a play where he has much less disgression, and be harsh on the play he has much more disgression on. From a refereeing standpoint, to have the calls reversed seems to be putting himself into biasing the outcome unfairly territory.
     
  15. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    pbl.
     
  16. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can we please keep the homocardophobia out of this thread?

    Honestly, people.
     
  17. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    That's exactly how I saw it. I saw the US going hard into a lot of tackles and saw this as an error of over-pursuit instead of being cynical or violent.

    Also thought the Italian red card against Ireland was harsh, he didn't overtly look at the defender to line it up and it didn't look like he moved his arm in an agressive, or violent manner.
     
  18. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As opposed to a big screaming gay red
     
  19. Chitown Catracho

    Chitown Catracho New Member

    Oct 13, 2004
    Chicago, IL
    Look, I do not take issue with people who say that they think it should've been a yellow, but acknowledge that the act was enough to earn a red, and that it's the ref's discretion in the end. I'm calling people silly who refuse to see that the act was enough to earn a red and are outraged at the red being given and saying it was a horrible call. It wasn't a horrible call, it wasn't anti-American, it was simply a value judgement by the ref. The act was enough to earn a red. And frankly, as a football fan, that kind of action should be considered for a red every time. It's dangerous and can injury someone seriously.

    Now, I am not happy about it either. I thought the US was playing well. I would've liked to have seen what they could've done against Italy at full strength. Red cards suck. I hate them. They totally change the game and permanently give the advantage to one side. It's like it's not a real football game anymore. But ever since Pele was getting hacked to death and refs were unable to do anything about it, FIFA saw the need for bookings. I really think people should be focusing their outrage where it belongs, on the player who made the totally unnecessary, rash, reckless, and yes, stupid challenge. And I did it without caps this time :D
     
  20. Chitown Catracho

    Chitown Catracho New Member

    Oct 13, 2004
    Chicago, IL
    But then why did he kick at Gattuso's right leg, when the ball was clearly on his left foot? And why did he raise his leg when the ball was on the ground? This was beyond overpursuit, it was reckless. Yes, I also think he tried to pull out at the last second, but that's irrelevant. You don't have to be trying to hurt someone to draw a red for a reckless challenge.
     
  21. ty webb

    ty webb Member

    Aug 28, 2005
    NYC
    Agreed.

    It was a silly and foolish foul that our players need to quit committing.
     
  22. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    The FIFA Disciplinary Committee ruled today that Ricardo Clark will only serve a one-match ban following his sending off against Italy. The U.S. team submitted an appeal on Clark's behalf, which included statements from Italian players - including Gattuso - saying they thought the foul only deserved a yellow card. Clark will now be available for the final group match against Egypt.

    http://mnt-ussoccer.blogspot.com/
     
  23. tsaldana3

    tsaldana3 Member

    Apr 26, 2008
    TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So do we count this as good or bad? :eek:
     
  24. UCmeDV8

    UCmeDV8 New Member

    May 31, 2009
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Seriously! He was awful, even prior to his stupid late slide tackle. Torres has earned the spot.
     
  25. Bolo

    Bolo New Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Rejecting Clark based on this one play is silly. I can think of a few players who have been excluded from matches recently due to fouls, who still play and start.
     

Share This Page