Are you suggesting there is a bias against American players? You really think if the next Messi or Ronaldo is an American the biggest clubs in the world wouldn't be falling over each other trying to sign him? Please. Clubs care about two things and two things only when they assess a prospect: ability and marketability. If Donovan had played like a world-beater at BM, do you really think they would have let him go back to the US?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't seen a lot of Eredivisie in recent years. Donovan wouldn't start for AZ and probably not for FC Twente either. He'd have a better chance at succeeding at Ajax, Feyenoord or even PSV currently than those two aforementioned clubs.
Klinsmann's a humorless, reactionary tool. I have no idea where the "Klinsmann is open-minded" myth comes from, but we're talking about a guy who has called homosexuality "immoral" in an interview and loves to sue people who make fun of him.
why is this thread still open? Who cares about Landon Donovan and Yanks Abroad until he actually goes overseas and does something for once? Until then, why even have a thread with Landon Donovan and Yanks Abroad in the title? Watching Donovan do his trademark fist pump/swing while playing an exhibition for Bayern in Saudi Arabia match was like Kobi Bryant celebrating a nice shot in the pre-season NBA vs. the Clippers B-team. Yawn. Guess what? Kobi saved his big 'I'm the man' intense look for last night when something was actually on the line, and his contribution actually meant something. Until Donovan goes over and actually does something, he's just a pretender on that stage and not worth a post here. Having said, his accomplishments on the National Team stage have been greater, and he deserves a higher level of respect and praise for those accomplishments. But club and country really have nothing to do with each other anyway.
This thread is open because it refers to Landon Donovan's stint in the Bundesliga. That's obvious. If you're not interested in talking about it, you're welcome to avoid the thread. And we have NSR forums for talking about basketball.
Very true....You can always find Star players who never seem to perform well at NT level and great NT players who never seem to amount to much at club level... .
Sorry to say that you did not follow the Landon debacle closely. The reality is that Landon did not play that much at Bayern. He played a number of minutes in exhibition matches before the resumption of the Bundesliga following the winter break. Match Stats Bayern Munich Rensing – Lell (Altintop 65), Lucio, Demichelis, Lahm – Schweinsteiger (Donovan 77), van Bommel, Zé Roberto (Borowski 70), Ribery – Toni, Klose Bayern Munich Rensing - Lell, Luico, Demichelis, Lahm - Schweinsteiger (Altintop 72), Van Bommel, Zé Roberto, Ribéry - Toni (Donovan 72), Klose (Borowski 90+2) Bayern Munich Rensing - Lell (Borowski 58), Lucio, Demichelis, Lahm - Schweinsteiger, van Bommel, Zé Roberto, Ribéry - Klose, Toni (Donovan 35) Rensing - Oddo, Demichelis, Van Buyten, Lahm - Schweinsteiger (Altintop 46), Van Bommel, Zé Roberto (Borowski 65), Ribéry - Klose, Podolski (Donovan 46) Rensing - Oddo, Lucio, Demichelis, Zé Roberto - Altintop (Donovan 77), Van Bommel, Borowski (Ottl 78), Schweinsteiger (Podolski 46) - Ribéry - Klose Rensing - Oddo, Lucio, Van Buyten (Breno 76), Lahm - Altintop (Ottl 65), Demichelis, Zé Roberto, Schweinsteiger - Klose, Podolski (Donovan 80 That's 6 matches. No starts He averaged 25 minutes per game, but when you examine the minutes he played over his last 4 matches it works out to only 13 minutes per game. He was given token playing time. 6 matches out of a 35 match season is too short a period to make a decision on a player. A player would have to make an immediate impact.
That's pretty much spot on! What are you talking about? Most players don't get any minutes of playing time at all with a club before a decision is made. A club buys them and then plays them without any sort of trial or anything. In this case, the Bayern management not only had the opportunity to see LD play, they even had the opportunity to watch him train beforehand. Yup...and that is something he was unable to do.
He was on loan. Typically players get more than 6 matches while on loan before a club decides on their fate. Prior history with most American players on load to Europe were for significantly more matches and longer periods of time. Also, this was no 17 year old kid, this is the best American field player with two World Cups behind him and the Golden Ball winner at the U17 world championship. He should have gotten a better look. Donovan was at Bayern for less than three months. He played from January to March. There is an adjustment playing in Europe. He was not in mid season form like the other players. It should have been reason enough to have either made the loan right after the conclusion of the MLS season or have kept him for a few more matches to comfirm if he could play. That said, LD did nothing in the regular season matches to state his case to be sold to Bayern. Also, the teams poor performance and the growing dissatisfaction with Klinsmann did not help. Guilt by association. Oh yeah he's Klinsmann's pet project.
Players brought in by a previous unpopular coach are shown the door all the time. In LD's case it was easy because his loan period was up and there weren't any financial issues to work out. I also do not buy the anti-American stuff. Sure, some may have their doubts about an American playing football and history would be on their side when it comes to the top leagues, but if you have an impact the trainers, supporters and other players will make it known. It may be time to give up on the LD in Europe experiment. Over 100 caps and some still say he needs to become familiar with playing in Germany. This was his third attempt. How much more time does he need to understand that the sport is faster and more physical in Germany and the better leagues in Europe? He's too small to hold off a bibber defender, gets knocked off the ball, not so fast that he burns the place up, not gifted with leaping ability to beat the bigger back lines in the air consistently. What does he bring that they can't find locally? Big teams, Hopefully, there are some lessons to be learned from the LD, Adu, Altidore, Eddie Johnson sojourns that can be incorporated into the disparate developmental schemes (another issue ) in the U.S.
Is Landon, or anyone, simply entitled to playing time? I don't like the end result any more than you do, but I'm willing to believe that Landon got a chance to win a spot, didn't show enough, and that was that. People are fond of claiming that so-and-so didn't get a "fair chance" if they aren't handed as much playing time as we seem to think is due them. For my part, I think that getting signed by a club (or going over on loan, in this case) is a player's "fair chance," and it's on the player to make the most of that chance and win playing time. Supporters may quibble over who should play or start, and managerial changes might leave some players out, but by and large it's a player's responsibility to fight his way onto the pitch. We may argue about what the club thinks of Landon or Klinsmann after the fact, but I'm pretty sure Landon was at the very least evaluated by Bayern. What comes next has to be up to the player. It's too bad that Landon didn't have months and months to impress the staff, but that's life--rarely, if ever, does that perfect opportunity come along. More frequently, you're forced to make the most from the contingencies of the situation you're in.
I'm not going to go over old ground with you, it's in my posts if you took the time to read them. He was evaluated, but he was not given much of a chance to succeed. Coming in when he did and playing limited minutes in 2/3's of his matches does not equate to being given a fair look. Most players can do little in 13 minutes of play. Soccer is a team game. You need to get the ball and do something with it. Anyone that watched these games knows Donovan was not fully integrated into the run of play. In retrospect, Landon should have gone over in October, not January. His loan would have been for five months and he would have gotten significantly more practice time. I don't disagree that Bayern Munich was not right for him, but I still believe with a mid tier club in Germany or Spain, Donovan could succeed if he worked hard and integrated himself with time to the club. Bayern was too big of a club with too many players of similar or better talent competing for playing time.
Background of all the statements on Donovan is Jürgen Klinsmann, not Donovan himself or his performances. For some strange reason Bayern signed him without ever being convinced of him. Hoeness and Rummenigge are pulling the strings at this club and they are traditionalists who didn't even get along with Klinsmann when he was a player on their team. Already when JK was NT coach they permanently clashed, with the highlight of sorting Kahn out straight after Hoeness demanded that Klinsmann has to determine a starting goalie. Probably Bayern felt like they needed to go new ways and signed JK - but right from the start they didn't like him and they didn't back him. They started criticizing him early in the public and that way a coach doesn't have any chance. JK of course is very American friendly and that was a big reason why he wanted Donovan. It was clear right from the start that he wouldn't get lots of playing time, he was signed as fourth forward behind the seeded Toni / Klose and Podolski. Hoeness, Rummenigge and the Bayern scouts made it clear, even in the public, that they didn't want Donovan. The media was actually pretty positive on him but this rather with the background to cause unrest as this would have meant that one of the three seeded forwards would have turned unsatisfied and they would have delivered some stories. At the end Klinsmann was fired after what was a disastrous season for Bayern with all of them - coach, officials and players - doing a horrible job. Club and coach agreed on keeping their mouth shut but neither of them did. First Bayern bashed at Klinsmann in a hidden way, then Klinsmann's consultant set up a live interview in a German TV show where JK still presented himself as the big saviour of soccer who was treated like crap - which on the other side made Bayern's officials get very angry and that's when this Gerland statement came about Donovan. If he had signed some other guy it would have been his name, the whole story about the statements has nothing do with Landon. He is just the unlucky guy in an awfully bad soap opera. Just like the Mexican and American guys on his coaching staff - they also were criticized early just because they were wanted by Klinsmann. If Klinsmann had insisted on a certain cleaning lady she would have been bashed in the public as well...
But what is left to say? What other player- after they have left their overseas stint for several months- has pages and pages devoted to him in revisionist history? Continue on, but there is still something seriously wrong with either Landon's choices of going overseas and his performance once he gets there. He's got once last chance in his career to get it right- and I hope he does. If history holds- he should best choose a less pressurized situation with a wide berth.....so that he can make his mistakes and still feel comfortable. Somewhere where the expectations will be really low, and every game is not life or death. I'm starting to doubt if the Prem is even a good league for him- maybe Holland would be better fit. Some place where he can shine, stand out amongst the rest early, and gain confidence from there.
Wait a minute... you're saying Hoeness made up the Hermann Gerland quote? He just lied about it? Or you're saying Gerland said it but that's not important. I tend to believe Gerland said it, which is why I started the thread in the first place. It was just an "Ouch!" moment. What Hoeness thinks of Donovan or why he thinks that way is kind of irrelevant to me. It was more the Gerland quote I was highlighting.
I don't really know what you're getting at... are you trying to cryptically suggest that they're all in it to tear down Klinsmann's character (while taking a swipe at Gerland's credentials at the same time)? I don't suspect Gerland really cares one way or another. He coaches the reserve team. I doubt that he'd spend much time furnishing an anti-Donovan quote just to further Hoeness' agenda.