http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2011.html Code: # country 06/07 07/08 08/09 09/10 10/11 ranking 1 England 16.625 17.875 15.000 0.000 0.000 49.500 0 2 Spain 19.000 13.875 13.312 0.000 0.000 46.187 0 3 Germany 9.500 13.500 12.687 0.000 0.000 35.687 0 4 Italy 11.928 10.250 11.375 0.000 0.000 33.553 0 5 Ukraine 6.500 4.875 16.625 0.000 0.000 28.000 0 6 France 10.000 6.928 11.000 0.000 0.000 27.928 0 All they need to do is get the same coefficient points from the next two European competitions as Serie A. Even 2 points less would since they will have a 2.1 lead
I would say unlikely, as next season, with Wolfsburg and Stututgart we wont get many points in the Championsleague...
It's unlikely. At the end of the day there are 3-4 Serie "A" clubs capable of reaching the quarters of the CL on any given year and only 1 Bundesliga club that can realisitically do the same.
We already had such a poll a few weeks ago and as I wrote in that old thread it´s possible but a bit too early to predict. Four teams in the qf of the cl are not necessary cause a 1:0 victory vs Austria Wien in the UEFA CUP gives you the same amount of points for the coefficients as a 5:0 vs Manu or Barcelona in the CL.
Well thats true. And I do expect the german teams in the UEFA Cup to do well again. So if the Italian teams have another bad year then, yes it is possible. Still I find it rather unlikely.
While that's true (apart from the fact you get bonus points in the CL), if a league has teams that can compete with Man U and Barca it's probably an indicator to being having stronger teams, which over the long-haul would lead to more coefficient points.
Well you also get bonus points in the UEFA CUP, just not as many as in the CL but there are also more matches to be played in the UC. And I´d put it the other way round. The CL says something about the relative strength (and wealth) of the few elite teams that a league has, while the results in the UEFA CUP show how strong or weak the average teams from a particular league are.
Plausible. Mostly Because I don't think Italian clubs have much of a chance in the CL either next year; I mean Inter would probably have gone out of the group this year had Diego not missed that last minute chance at Anorthosis. And that was a soft group. Milan will be Kakaless, Old and even more uninspiring then before. Juve are Juve and I don't expect Fiorentina to go any further than the group stage. Also Italian clubs have a history of not taking the Uefa cup particularly seriously; German Clubs do (except Hertha; who suck in Europe). @NS: Schalke made the CL QFs two years ago. Also the BL if you haven't noticed has more points for each of the past two years, so totally plausible.
Problem is one of those years is a direct result of the penalty placed on Italian top teams for match-fixing. Unless you see that happening again in the next 2 years, we can't really use that season as a strong indicator to future events. So basically its just one season, which I deem a fluke due to a very unlucky R16 CL draw for Italian teams. Overall Serie "A" teams outperformed both Bundesliga and La Liga teams in Europe this past season, so with a little luck in the draws it should start reflecting in the coefficient pts soon enough.
But things don't look exactly bright for the Italian clubs right now, two of the 'big three' are quite old and look like losing their bad players. Milan and possibly Juve are going on with coaching experiments which may produce the next Guardiola but could easily produce the next Tony Adams. Both clubs need clear outs and neither club has impressed in Europe for a while. And let's not even speak of Inter... (who can't blame the draw for their failures in Europe, CL contenders don't lose at home to Panathaikos, a draw would have seen them play Villareal in the R16... I wouldn't have fancied them there either, but better than Man U). Of course I am liable to be totally wrong, but I wouldn't be too optimistic about Italian sides chances in the CL right now (though neither would I be for German clubs; though Wolfsburg might do something decent if they can hold onto their squad... or they could go 0-0-6 like Hamburg did). The advantage for the Germans is they are more likely to take the Michel Platini Conflagbrous Conflaguation Cup the Europa League more seriously and tbh with Werder in it have a better chance of winning it than any non-CL dropout Italian side. At least if history is anything to go by...
Outperformed Dortmund 0-2 Udinese Udinese 0-2 Dortmund (Udinese advanced after penalties) Inter 1-1 Werder Werder 2-1 Inter Werder 1-1 Milan Milan 2-2 Werder Werder 3-1 Udinese Udinese 3-3 Werder Milan 2-2 Wolfsburg Sampdoria 1-1 Stuttgart Germany 3wins, Italy 1 win, 6 draws Season score at 5 years ranking: Spain 13.312 Germany 12.687 Italy 11.375 I expect an Italian comeback, but this season BL did pretty decent against Serie A teams.
Code: # country 05/06 06/07 07/08 08/09 09/10 ranking teams 1 England 14.428 16.625 17.875 15.000 0.000 63.928 0 2 Spain 15.642 19.000 13.875 13.312 0.000 61.829 0 3 Italy 15.357 11.928 10.250 11.375 0.000 48.910 0 4 Germany 10.437 9.500 13.500 12.687 0.000 46.124 0 5 France 10.812 10.000 6.928 11.000 0.000 38.740 0 6 Russia 10.000 6.625 11.250 9.750 0.000 37.625 0 48.9 vs. 46.1 So if for 09/10 tournaments, Germany do better by 2.9 points than Italy, they will overtake Serie A. However, they best shot is 2 years from now because they will have a 2 point lead.
I wasn't talking about just head-to-head. As bad as Inter was in their "weak" group they still outperformed Werder, while Juve beat Madrid twice and went toe-to-toe with Chelsea and Roma beat Chelsea and lost to Arsenal in PKs. Sorry, but that's better than the performance of Bundesliga teams this sesaon.
Better then 2 teams in semi final of UEFA Cup? Where are the italian teams in the final rounds? You're bias.
Wrong, I'm objective. Considering the UEFA Cup finalist was outperformed by even a struggling Inter Milan in Europe this season....
In fact, you lose next season a amazing year where the Bundesliga lose one of its worst. In that case Italy has "now" (before beginning of next UEFA season) a score of 33553 points and the Bundesliga has 35687. So, Serie A has to be much better the next year international to be not overtaken. good luck with your "objectivism"
Don't know where you dug up those numbers, but Italy are still ahead of Germany over the past 4 years. Germany needs to be almost 3 points/team better than Italy to overtake them next season: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html
05/06 won't fall out until two years from now (ie. after the completion of the 2010/11 season). Hope you're not holding your breath.
Italian teams consistently make it to the knockout round of the CL (at least 3 out of the 4); it's once they get to the knockout round that they have been sub-par. German teams have struggled more in that area. It's normally only one making it through to the knockout round, and that's almost always Bayern. I realize the coefficient is much more heavily weighted on the newly donned Europa then it should be, so the performances in the UEFA cup have significant bearing on the coefficient.
Hmmm Juve got Diego though, they should be better. Milan if they don't buy some quality players, they could very well get kicked in the group stage. They already have started to buy players, 15m for a LB already. Inter is too much of a question mark with Mourinho at the helm. Fiorentina I think are going to be kicked out of the group. Stuttgart and Wolfsburg... I don't have too much hope in either making the round of 16, but if they get 3rd place, they can go to UEFA and win points there. Too much speculation, it would be easier to see at the end of the trasnfer season, who went and who came to whichever club.
I don't think Stuttgart and Wolfsburg will collect many points next season. But the football in general (stadiums, fans, money etc) is improving alot compared to Italy. The past couple of season the Italian football hasn't shown much (except Italy worldchampion in 2006). The German football passing Italy will be a good development because we will get rid of catanecho football.