Chelsea FC v FC Barcelona | 06 May 09 | Post Match Discussion [R]

Eto'o is not the kind of striker who single-handedly breaks down a defense. There are exceptions, of course, but mainly he thrives on being in the right place at the right time for the one touch; and a defense with 8-9 men in the box all the time makes his type of play awfully hard.

 

England used to be the home of sportsmanship and fair play. That has gone completely out the window.

 

Yeah, I don't get the unintentional handball appeals. The only thing Pique did was intentionally have his arm outward from his body. He wasn't between Anelka and the goal - rather he was running alongside Anelka so it is natural for his arms to be extended outward (compare that to a situation where a player is in the wall and blindly puts his hands above his head stopping a free kick attempt). And he could not have moved his hand in the time it took for the ball to get from Anelka's foot to Pique's arm. Regardless of how some referees would interpret the situation, it doesn't make sense why that situation should lead to a penalty. I'm not saying Eto'o's alleged handball deserved a penalty, but at least that had something to do with blocking a shot. I have strong suspicions that Anelka purposely played the ball into Pique's arm, but maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist.

My two cents on the game: I thought Messi had a pretty good game. He created a good amount, but there was not all that much to be created. Iniesta was driving me crazy with his attempts to create the perfect play and not trying to test Cech (and then he ended with the most immaculate of strikes...lol). I still think it is a mistake to play Iniesta as a forward - it never seems like he plays well in that role. Once again, Barca looked rushed when trying to create. The room for passes was there (although not much room and the passes needed to be perfect), but the passes were not connecting and the players off the ball were not making the runs that the player passing the ball was expecting. All the credit for that goes to Chelsea's relentless defending.

 

I think you guys are using "intentional" too narrowly. If the arm is off the body and blocks the ball's progress, many referees will call it:

What is 'deliberate' handball?

"The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger"
Former Premier League referee David Elleray


"Hand to ball or ball to hand?" Nothing stirs the passion like a controversial handball decision.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm

 

Well, I'm a lawyer so I get paid to parse words.

I know a lot of refs call it if the hand is away from the body, but it doesn't seem fair to me to do that automatically.

I don't think Pique's arm was in an "unnatural position." Arm away from the body does not automatically make the position unnatural.

 

Right. What they're talking about is you can't spread your arms out like an NBA defender, and then if the ball hits your arm, say the arm was there first and it was unintentional. That is NOT what I'm talking about.

My impression was Pique was using his arms for balance, and the ball was kicked into one of them. Eto'o was hit in the back of the shoulder near the tricep? My point was English players and fans are always calling for handballs that were never intentional, before or after the ball was kicked. To all the refs' credit, 99% are not given.

But the players are conditioned. If you look back at Ronaldinho's wonder goal at Chelsea, the defender in front of him is holding his own arms unnaturally pinned against his body if not behind his back, because of that "handball" culture. He gave Ronaldinho an opening by shrinking down from his own natural body space.

 

I know he gets a lot of schtick around here, but John Terry is a lot classier than all the other Chelsea players by a long, long shot:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=644051&sec=uefachampionsleague&cc=5901

Meanwhile Drogba was still screaming somewhere in his flip flops and kit

 

Agreed. No one is arguing that the ball didn't touch Pique's arm. The fallacy all those Chelsea whiners are committing is equating arm-touch with obvious penalty.

They would have an argument if all four of these criteria were met:

1. They weren't m-fking F I S H I N G for penalties the entire night. No wonder the referee didn't judge that to be a penalty either, and rightly so.

2. Abidal hadn't recently gotten a (dubious) red card. I know that shouldn't effect the outcome, but in practice, it almost always does, and it's part of the game(, sadly).

3. Pique had put his arm there intentionally.

4. The ball was going for goal, or anything like it.

And NONE of those other so-called "stonewall" penalties were penalties, either, so they don't factor into the "unfairness" the chelsea supporters are bringing.

In fact, besides the red card, I thought the ref did quite well. And that's being objective.

Although, I recognize that for those who run their logic on emotion, that may sound harsh and arrogant. Well, the truth is often harsh and arrogant - it's the truth, and it doesn't care what you think of it.

Yeh... Messi did well, but I think he had strict orders to be a team-player from Guardiola - he seems to have gotten these orders the entire season.

He is simply not the same "shining star" that he was during Rijkaard. Not that he is a worse player today, but he simply plays under different circumstances.

And yeh, I was cursing Alves and Iniesta (and especially Eto'o, whom I still distrust) until the magic moment of mind-orgasm^123

All in all, Chelsea deserved to lose, and Barcelona deserved to win. If Barcelona hadn't equalized, Chelsea would've deserved to go through for sure. But they did, and the result is 1 - 1. And blaming the referee is not going to cut it - if you base your strategy on fishing for penalties, you deserve to lose when the referee ain't buying it. Simple as that.

Peace, and may the eternal city welcome us well!

 

That was class of Terry. Lampard was class after the game too. Drogba and Ballack can go to hell though.

 

Well for ballack at least he is not going to lose in a final again..ballack the eternal loser

02 CL final
02WC final
04 euros
CL after CL
and then 06 WC in Germany
and then 08 CL final
and then 08 Euros
And then today again.
Ballack the eternal loser.

 

poor guy , I feell sorry for him he's just a referee

 

First post (probably last), but this article seems to sum it up:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...no-barcelona-chelsea-conspiracy-guus-hiddinks

 

Mirrors view on the game

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTN8Say46DA"]YouTube - Oliver Holt on Chelsea v Barcelona[/ame]

 

"Press photographers gather outside the home of soccer referee Tom Henning Ovrebo in Oslo.
Norway's football federation defended referee Ovrebo on Thursday in the face of alleged death threats and furious Chelsea protests over his performance in the English side's Champion's League elimination by Barcelona.
The 42-year-old Norwegian — a prospective referee for the 2010 World Cup — has been told not to speak to the media since Wednesday night's game at Stamford Bridge, said Rune Pedersen, the federation's refereeing boss."

 

Terry did the right thing on this ocassion but he is a truly horrible, horrible bloke, a thug of the first order.

 

It's amazing how the first leg is so conveniently forgotten. It must be nice to be able to retreat to fantasy (ie. selective memory) land at the drop of a hat.

 

Why is intention only taken into account with regards to handballs. If a striker is running clean through and you accidently clip his heels, surely it is a foul? If a player accidently hits someone with an elbow whilst jumping, surely it is a card? If a player is accidently offside, is it not offside. I don't see why hand balls should be any different.

Don't know where you've got this from. English football has always had unruly fans who hate referees. We have always had players who will cheat to gain an advantage. We have always had players who moan for eternity over perceived injustices (Hand of God '86). It must be said though, that he was smuggled away out of precaution. Nobody ever actually did anything to him, even if he was begging to be smashed with a coin or two on the way out. It also should be noted that the Englishmen on the pitch behaved admirally. The only unsportsmanlike acts were by a German and Ivorian.

 

Because that's the law of the game.

"In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)"."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm

Deliberately means intentionally. And it makes sense. Otherwise teams like Chelsea would be flicking, chipping, and shooting at people's arms all day. Two goalmouths on every defender!

 

This whole ball-to-hand hand-to-ball issues are way to confusing, and are impossible to be applied objectively. We have all seen more inocuous situations being called as penalties and sometimes even more obvious ones being not called.

BUT the pique incident sure did look like a penalty. HOWEVER, no way anyone could argue that the red card was legit.

Drogba can bitch and moan as much as he wants, but Toure did not foul him in the box. The guy is strong, and you could see how he held up Toure just until he reaches the box. The tackle was clean, Drogba was fishing.

The Eto'o decision was clearly not a handball. Turning away from the goal, if there ever was a "ball-to-hand" incident, it was that.

 

JM Puyol's broadcast brought tears to my eyes.

 

Re: muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Call me crazy but two clear observations from reading this thread through:

1. If this had been Madrid playing, I would be hoping they get killed since the last thing I want to see is the potential for another trophy in their cabinet. Not sure why any Madrid supporter would be backing us in this match because I certainly wouldn't have reciprocated had the tables been turned.

2. Penalty or no penalty, Drogba is a diver and thug. Ref's know this about him, in the past he admitted to diving to get calls and it's not a hidden secret he is dirty. If I am this ref, anytime he goes down in the box and it isn't BLATANT, there is no way the call goes his way.


Although I did somewhat denounce Valdes early in the game, it should be clarified my frustration is his lack of consistency. On this night he was at the top of his game but not every match is like this.

 

Re: muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Is this true or not?