The Dimitar Berbatov Thread [R]

Nah, pretty straight forward tactic. Fergie knew Giggs would track back more than Ronaldo and he wanted to Protect Rafael with someone who would work hard. Ronaldo played in front of O'Shea who Fergie was confident could handle his business.

Fergie has played Giggs on the right as a defensive stopper on numerous occasions throughout his career. I also don't think that Giggs was bad on the right. He wasn't good, but I think that was a function of our attack being limited. Giggs is the most affected by our stagnant attack because he doesn't have the legs or the power to consistently beat 2 or 3 men over the course of 90 minutes. He needs to do his damage whilst others are doing the leg work, with flicks and quick passes. What makes it worth having him on the pitch is that unlike a Nani or a Park, when Giggs does have that magical moment and drifts free, he more often than not (or more often than them anyway) can find a way to make the opposition pay.

 

I seem to recall Ronaldo playing on the same side as one of the twins and tracking back a lot. I guess that was Fabio?

Re the comment that Giggs wasn't good because "that was a function of our attack being limited". It's obvious that the attack is limited. Question is what's limiting it and why.

 

I have been a little under the weather so wasnt paying attention as I wanted to during the game.

But I thought on that particular play where he scored, he was on the right due to a corner (?) and was coming out when Scholes picked him out. I think that accounted for him being on the left more than him switched there.

Can someone confirm if the corner thing I mentioned is in fact what happened?

 

Giggs was over on the left because he had just taken the corner. Next.

 

I meant to say left. He was on the left due to the corner at that moment in the game.

 

Yes, but for whatever reason, Fergie elected to play Giggs on the right this time. I don't think it was in order to limit him going forward and I dont think him playing on the right contributed to a poor(er) showing in the first hour of the match. There have been occasions when Ronaldo has tracked back a lot. I doubt WH away would have been one of them even if he was instructed to.

 

Ronaldo seems protective of Fabio and Rafael. I think when ever one plays behind him he will take extra care to give them a little more support.

 

To me, it was a poor offensive showing. So why is the attack limited?

Possible reasons (in no particular order)
1. Giggs in playing on the right -- ball was on the wrong foot.
2. Ronaldo was on the left with 2 markers and stayed out wide (presumably because he was told to do that).
3. Tevez and Berbatov were both playing deep. When Giggs/Ronaldo did get a cross in from their wide positions there was no one to get on the end of it.
4. Carrick and Scholes were playing deeper than Tevez and Berbatov.

You know how last year the formations would be shown to indicate that a player (usually Ronaldo) could move from side to side? It would look something like this (last year):
------------Rooney-----Tevez----------
----------------Ronaldo-----------------
Giggs------Scholes----------Hargraves
etc

This year it seems like there's no side to side movement and the formation looks something like this:

^^----------^------------^---------^^
||------------|------------|----------| |
|Ronaldo----|------------|-----Giggs |
||-------Berbatov----Tevez--------| |
|--------Carrick------Scholes------- |
|-------------------------------------- |
Evra-----Rio---------Vidic-----Rafael

except that really most of the time it's Evra and Rafael who would be the farthest forward. So everyone is on a track moving forward and back.

 

He still spend time with them and their mother in Brasil.

 

I said this on the 29th of September and still think it rings true. A lot of people are turning on Berba-Berba as the pressure heats up and I can see him becoming a scapegoat quite sharpish if things really do turn out badly.

I get the feeling he has to do some special things in our upcoming games to really curry favour and not seem like a waste of money and expense (to the way we play, formation etc) but I still personally have my doubts he can do that.

Me personally, I'd prefer him to be out of the team for a period of time with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo being given an actual chance to reform their chemistry from last season and Berba having to actually earn his place back in the team and not just be given it with a guarantee.

We need some stability now and I'd very much like to see us do as we did in terms of system last season and drop the one we're playing now.

Let Ronaldo go free, Carrick and whoever partners him sit and the roaming '3' get back to business behind a striker. What peeves me in this respect is seeing the dippers using our succesful formation and reaping the dividends we did with it whilst we've dropped it like a hot potato.

I keep trying to draw up a logistical way to use Berbatov, but with his application and output when things aren't going well for him (and the team) being what they are, it's difficult to give an objective reason why he should be a default starter in the team.

The pressure on him to perform from April through till May will be the most intense he's ever had to handle. Will he cope and/or excel when we most need him to or should Tevez be given a (proper) go instead?

 

I've wondered this myself. I think it's one of 2 things.

1) We can either try to leave things the way we are, barely scraping by both tactically and in the amount of goals we're scoring. The players do not seem comfortable with each other, but at least things would stay similar to the way they've been all season.

2) We could possibly jeopardize the run-in, but as you said DS, put our 3-Pronged monster from last season out there and hope they can recreate the blistering form that would see us blitz teams 5-0, 6-0 last season. Tevez would have to work his way back into form, Ronaldo would be given the license back to roam instead of hugging the touchline........but the guys could also just not click.

Either way, DS' assessment of Berbs back in September is spot on. He has not done enough with the ball when he has had it to justify his lazy style off the ball. Not at all. There's been a couple nice flicks and assists, like that one near the touchline earlier, but not many. Someone will inevitable mention that he's got the highest assists, etc - but look at the drop in other's numbers and see that we've sacrificed as a team to play Berbatov.

Fergie is too stubborn to bench Berbs IMO, the same way he was Veron. I think we'll see Berbs start whenever he gets back to being fit, and we'll literally try to scrape through the run-in leaving things as they are, rather than letting Rooney/Ronnie/Tevez come back and run it.

 

He is still getting to know his team mates. All he needs is a little confidence and support and he will show the fans why Ferguson bought him.

 

A full pre-season will do him good, Queiroz's return would be even better.

 

It is absolutely amazing that even experienced managers can get done by flash and style. I mean, we sold and pissed off one of if not the best finisher in the club's history because he didn't contribute enough to the team. We bought another team oriented forward in Tevez and found a system that worked wonders for the team, only to bend over backwards to sign a forward who requires more from the team than he can give.

We've had no bloody continuity, Queiroz or not, we just haven't done anything often for long enough periods. We are a team with an identity crisis.


442 - 442 w/ Fletcher at RM
451 to fit in Veron
451 to compensate for Keane
433 to choke the play of others
433 to optimize Ronaldo, but neutralize Rooney
4231 for the good of the team, but screwed Scholes and lacked final piece
442 for absolutely no cot damn reason.

All of that in the last 6-7 years.

 

I think SAF needs to sit down this summer and think hard about how to utilize Berba. He clearly has his own style and does not seem to be able to hang with the rest of our team outside of that style. The question is then how we can accomodate him better. How do we set up the team to get the best out of this guy?

I don´t know how to label this guy. He has an amazing first touch and I think he helps us a lot with retention. This is going to become more and more important as Scholes doesn´t seem to be able to deliver the same calm in the team as he used to.

Nobody can question Berba´s vision and passes, but I don´t think we will see the best of him unless he has a lot of players around him to chose from. He needs people making runs in front of him.

He is clearly not a united quality nr. 9, as he barely even gets any shots of. I wonder what his statistic for shots on target is this year compared to the rest of our forwards and wingers... If he cannot do that role better, we should find an alternative where he is used better.

The 4231 is the obvious answer again.

---warrior-Carrick----
Ron---Berba---Rooney
---------nr 9----------

If we are going to stick with 442, I think we will need pacy wingers that will make runs past Berba. As Berba is not much of a goal-threat in that position the wingers will need to contribute, the same should apply to the central midfield. But I think this will hurt Rooney once again. He will be forced to be used as a nr. 9 and we will miss his creativity and ability to control games by himself.

What do we do with our tactics to utilize Berba properly? What we are doing now does not seem to work. When was the last season we scored as few goals as this season? That is not only down to Berba as our midfield bar Ronaldo doesn´t score at all, but still... He clearly has things to offer, but how do we take advantage of those things? What do you guys think?

 

The answer is simple, you don't.

 

In the league his conversion ratio is 20% which is the same as Fletcher and only bettered by Welbeck (50%) and Macheda (100%). No idea about shots on target for the squad but Berbatov has 40 in total with 21 being on target. This is roughly half of what he had in his last two full seasons with Spurs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rankings/2510186/Premier-League-Statistics.html

 

I was excited when he came on yesterday, I thought, "This is great! A player of his infectious enthusiasm and drive running at those tired legs of Everton...."

...or not.

 

I still can't figure out why Macheda was taken off.

 

Macheda was cramping up, SAF might also have thought that Berbatov would be abetter penalty taker.

 

he played well when coming on other than the penalty. he was completing passes and put a dangerous ball across the box that no one could get on to. it's terrible that he takes so much heat just because he doesn't run around the pitch in circles

 

Sir Alex leaps to defence of Berbatov

 

I thought Plan B did fine yesterday until the penalty. My issue with Berbatov is he doesn't seem to complement Ronaldo. They seem to get in each other's way and the sum of the parts doesn't add up. Against Porto away with Ronaldo up top and Rooney on the wing I saw some potential finally. There's only one ball on the field and they both like play to flow through them. If those two can figure it out it will work fine. If they can't I don't want Berbatov to be the reason Ronaldo leaves.

 

i think a pre season should sort out that problem

 

A short article in The Times regarding Berbatov. I'm not all for bashing the guy, but our chemistry up front is completely gone this term. It has left me really appreciating the stuff we saw last season (interplay of Rooney, Ron, and Tevez), of which we may not see again.