Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: The G*d Damn Plane Has Crashed Into The Mountain!

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Is this frontpage of Metro story any different than the earlier WashingtonPost.com article? I thought the original article was only Ovetta Wiggins without Rosalind S. Helderman.
United's Shot Is Blocked By Vote: Council Opposes Study of Stadium In Pr. George's

Some Goal.com piece:
McCarthy's Musings: If You Can Build It
Recent stadium news out of San Jose and D.C. shows just how difficult building a stadium is in these economic times, Goal.com's Kyle McCarthy writes.

AP

Washington Times
PG council rejects United stadium bill

When I read Pr. George's vote likey kills D.C. United stadium deal on msn money, I was disappointed by the article since it was a bizjournal article and they normally do much better. Then I read the Washington Business Journal article on their own website and it was significantly different.
Prince George's vote likely kills D.C. United stadium deal

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

This would be a situation that would almost demand that St. Louis have a temporary place to play at the ready.

The moment that a team is announced as moving, they are no longer the community's team. They belong to another. They would have to get out of town or play to an empty house.

Has any of the teams who have moved announced the move and stuck around to play the next season in the spurned community? If United is to move, I would expect an announcement wouldn't be made until the season is over and that they would play the next in their new city in a rented stadium.

As for me, I'm thinking Silver Line and a stadium that opens in 2016. That's a long time out there, but it's better than Collinsvile, Illinois, home of the worlds largest ketsup bottle:

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

I dont quite understand what's happened here.

They have decided not to support a study to see if the stadium will be beneficial to the community. This is not even about the stadium but a study. Im amazed.

What harm can be done in having this study done? None.

just because other sports have left a bitter taste in the mouths of taxpayers in DC and MD, it doesnt mean a study should be stopped.

By all means, if the study says it has no benefit then dont build it, but to effectively kill it off at this early stage is wrong.

MLS needs DC united, its one of the better franchises, lose it and the league suffers as a whole.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

No. You understand it quite well. Your problem is that you're applying an intelligent rational thought process.

The situation here is that the NIMBY's won. They got into the heads of the population and elected officials and clouded their minds with a bunch of "What if's?" that are 10 steps down the road from where things actually are.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Ya know, with all that talk of billions in federal funds for "recovery" projects, you'd think maybe we could get some love for ward 8 by working the federal angle. Don't any of these guys have ins there? I mean, come on. Given some of the projects, the stadium cost is a drop in the bucket, with tangible benefits.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Agree, but SunDevil's right: once you get to the point that constituents are saying, "It's going to cost us money!" all reason and logic depart the room. Politicians can hear nothing else. Plus, that was an idiotic parliamentary stunt that Bland pulled last week. It galvinized stadium opposition among those who felt marginalized by her decision.

On to the next suburb, hat in hand...

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

All due respect, but this is speculation on your part, pure and simple.

The economy may be down but Victor MacFarlane is still a billionaire. And I simply refuse to believe that he has no liquid assests, nor do the other collection of billionaires that own MLS teams. A good bit of their net worth might be non liquid assets, but come on, these guys are still richer than God.

Thing is, they didn't get that way by spending their own money, they spend other people's money, like MacFarlane's CALpers deal.

I'm not saying that Victor or the other MLS owners have vaults that they swim around in a-la Scrooge McDuck, but I'm all but certain that they have plenty of cash on hand.

Just not buying this line of logic.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

He has assests but those assests are partially controlled by companies with company directors who also have a say in where those funds are going. The board could vote down spending money on a stadium and then you're stuck.

Company worth is also largely calculated by its selling price. If you sell your company, it no longer makes you money. So while you might have $350 million dollars, or even a billion dollars from a sale, that money is gone if you spend it all (after the government scalps you on taxes from the sale). Businesses want to keep making money so even if they sell a company, they're going to reinvest that money into a business that will make them more money.

I do think that Vic and Co. could have put up more of their own money towards the stadium but given that DCU looses so much each year, I can see why they are cautious.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Well, it's always nice to start the morning with a nice dose of reality. Let's see here, the prospects for a stadium in D.C. are zilch (will Fenty even take a phone call from Uncle Vic these days?); Maryland just said "no" emphatically (the P.G. County's refusal to even allow a study means that the neighbors just don't want any part of it, period); and United's prelim but exhaustive search of Northern Virginia for stadium sites was fruitless. And, Uncle Vic ain't going to wait 3 or 5 years for the Silver Line to be built into Loudon County . . .

My guess is that if St. Louis or Ottawa want us and D.C. or Maryland doesn't come up with something solid quick, United is gone at the end of the season. And, MLS probably won't even consider an expansion application for the D.C./Baltimore region five or ten years down the line unless we've got a soccer specific stadium site selected with all the government approvals lined up like ducks in a row. Fat chance of that . . .

We're not that special in the grand scheme of things -- we're just a bunch of soccer nerds after all. D.C. has lost two pro baseball teams (the Senators 1.0 and 2.0), two pro soccer teams (the Dips & the Freedom 1.0), two pro basketball teams (a NBA team in the 50's and an ABA team in 1970), and who knows what else. You think that the casual sports fan much less the average citizen is going to care if United leaves town? Think again.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

I can boil all of this down into one cogent fiscal statement:

We are ********ed.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Natty, I doubt he's got that kind of cash, and even if he does he'd be foolish to use cash to build a stadium -- liquidity is king right now, and this isn't his only business or project. The whole system of lending, be it mortgages or construction loans, is in tatters, and I guarantee you that this DC United stadium project isn't the only place where McFarlane is feeling the pain from this right now. For him to part with a big pile of cash right now would be business suicide.

I really do think the issue here is not the belief that this is a good investment but the fact that they need someone to front the cash. Banks aren't gonna touch this. The only folks who can borrow this kind of money right now are state governments, and the only reason they can borrow is explicitly because the state is on the hook to pay it off. We can't get away from the fact that you're asking the state taxpayers to be the guarantors on the stadium loan.

This is not to excuse our ownership for the fact that this is a debacle right now. They needed someone else to front the money, so they should have done a better job providing clarity as to how it would work and providing guarantees of how they would backstop the loan/project if things didn't go according to plan. McFarlane seemed unprepared to address those sorts of questions, which is inexcusable. I know I certainly wouldn't have loaned him the money based on the answers he gave.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Let me just say this. If DCU leaves this area, MLS can kiss my mother********ing ass. I would never support an expansion team coming back. Never. I would turn into a NIMBY to stop it. And all the coin I drop on MLS now would go elsewhere if they decide to bolt. That's when I become a Euro snob extraordinaire.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Although I find it hard to believe that jurisdictions in Virginia would be positive on the idea of DC United moving there, if that was the case I'd have to ask how in the hell DC United's FO missed it and decided to throw in their lot with PG County.

Regardless, if I was McF and company - and that's what it is, a company - I'd be looking to unload to the highest bidder and get what I would oout of the sale. Their motivation was always the development and not the sport, regardless of what they say. You don't get to the point where you can buy a team by losing money.

So I'd say the odds are 80/20 in favor of the team moving - and after this season if a city can guarantee a SSS and a place to play next season while it's being built.

Buh-bye, DC United.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

I think what he's saying is the great middle part of this country is very indifferent to MLS as seen in KC and Colorado. This is a prime market.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Can you explain? Do you think MLS should just continue to subsidze DCU while there's a superior alternative out there?

Or would you just be so heartbroken that you could never care again?

The latter is understandable. The former, I don't get.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

You need to add some links to this statement. We've seen many times "finalized" means nowt when politicians are involved. I just read a heartbreaking story about St. Louis cutting bus service and its impact on its users...you know like getting to work and going to the doctor. Frivolous shit like that. Yet they have money for silly soccer?

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

I wanted to rep this, but apparently I've repped MeridianFC too recently. Can someone please cover for me?

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

1. Show me a superior alternative. Show me a team that could have an operating income loss less than teams in SSS with as shitty a stadium situation as DCU currently has. Cold fact: DCU loses less money than the Crew does in "soccer town USA" as some ESPN jackass once called it. St. Louis? I've seen soccer in the Midwest at KC and Colorado. Dead end. Now if you're running a Ponzi scheme like MLS, then of course, take the money and look for the next expansion.

2. Show me any MLS city where the local MLS team has better teevee ratings than the local MLB team.

3. We don't need subsidizes. We need time.

4. If DCU leaves, there is no MLS for me. As I said before, it can kiss my mother********ing ass. I will have nothing to do with it ever again, including any attempt to make a DCU 2.0. That's a non-starter.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Done.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

we got WPS and Freedom, we'll probably get a USL team, I think..

by the way, DCU gets better local teevee ratings than Nationals? wow

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

This guy gets higher ratings than the Nats, so let's keep this in perspective.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

One other thought on this: I'm really surprised by what seems to be a lack of political savvy in McFarlane's approach to the whole PG County strategy. I know he must be capable of doing this sort of thing well, because he's built a successful business empire by doing so, but in this case it really seems like he took PG's support for granted and was surprised by and caught unprepared by the most obvious of concerns/objections.

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

hell yea, without DC United there is no reason for me to care about anything MLS...
In fact when looking for jobs, being able to go to DC games was one of the reasons I decided to stay in the area!

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

Happy trees > the Nats

 

Re: Stadium News, Speculation & Conspiracy Theory XXI: Stop being emo and do something.

What's your source on his personal wealth? He manages many billions of dollars of other people's money in investment structures such as CalPers and MacFarlane Partners; but only a very small fraction of that is his, and I haven't been able to find out how much. Steinberg reported in March that MacFarlane *isn't* a billionaire. But what he *is*, I don't know. Do you have a link?

It's extremely unusual for the very rich with heavy investment portfolios to keep a sizeable sum liquid; it's a misuse of money, unless that liquidity is temporary because a near-term use is intended. Historically, one could profit significantly more readily by investing, and borrowing when short-term liquidity is needed, than by keeping funds in DDAs doing effectively nothing. That's less true right this moment, of course; but taking a significant loss by selling off assets in the current market to develop that liquidity seems silly.

So while you're right that I don't really know how much cash he has lying around, I wouldn't hesitate to bet a small amount of my own personal wealth that it's not remotely near the dollar figures required to build the stadium.