Stoke City vs Liverpool - EPL - Jan 10 [R]

With them in the lineup, Gerrard would have to play mid which would maybe have pushed Lucas on the bench...Gerrard can than make his runs into the box or attempt long shots, both of which we missed today - although, to be fair to Lucas, he must have been instructed to stay deep...

 

Yup, what he said. Sure, we can play a 1 striker formation and beat on Newcastle but against better defensive clubs like Stoke, it don't work. Especially with Lucas who was dire today. The boy passed the ball back so many times, I was beginning to think he played for Stoke! Beny reverted back to his piss-poor form that he's displayed most of the season. No one's mentioned that our back 4 were dreadful. Agger needs to replace Hypp next match. And what's up with Keane not playing in the last few games? He seemed to have got his stroke back recently only to be benched. Further, if Torres isn't match fit, start him and take him out at the 60th minute. Possibly the only bright spot here was Babel played pretty well.

 

Benitez would do well to realize that our early season success has changed the way teams approach these games. Sure, most if it is just psychological, but being top of the table changes the way people look at you. Right now, any team lower than the 6th spot on the table comes to Anfield trying to grind out a draw. Any team lower than the 12th spot, looks to grind out a draw at home as well.

In reality, the difference between the current team and last year's team is minute. In people's heads, it's huge, because last years we were 4th, and now we're topping the table. Hence more bunker this year than ever before. Sure, we all laughed at Chelsea for grinding out countless 1-0 wins during their 2 years as champions, but that was a period during which EVERY team came to Stamford Bridge trying to get a dull draw out of it. The fact that they were still able to win so many games, even with only a one goal margin, showed the mettle the team possessed.

It's almost as if Rafa refuses to acknowledge that topping the table going into the new year has changed anything.

 

Newcastle are better defensively than Stoke.

Just more proof, always particularly useful in post-match threads, that opinions based on single games are almost always inaccurate.

For instance, only Chelsea have more away points than us this season (26 against 24) - and we've played a single striker in every away game.

 

Skirtel played instead of Agger because he's better in the air and I am glad he did or we'd be mourning a loss.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Torres would of had more chances too. Keane should have played behind Torres so when Gerrard played in mid he could push up in attack, but in that period before half time where we kept losing the ball around midfield he could have steadied the ship.

 

Any reference to Newcastle being 'better defensively' than anyone in English football based on that specific game at St James's Park is laughable. That was arguably the worst defensive display (and also worst midfield display I might add) that I have seen from any team in the last 4/5 years in the Premier League. They may normally defend better, but that game is a terrible example. It could easily have been 10-15 goals for Liverpool with better finishing.

The simple fact is that Benitez hasn't yet worked out how to adapt his way of playing to break down solid teams who are determined to grind a goalless draw out. I would guess that 50-60% of all points dropped this season have been dropped in these types of games, but of course I may be wrong it might just seem that way. Can anyone give us some stats on how many points have been lost against teams in the lower half of the table through draws founded on an inability to break a turtle defence? Only ones I can think of off the top of my head that wouldn't fall into this category are the draws with Hull, Arsenal and the defeat at Spurs.

 

I understand your main point, I think, but the Stoke match at Anfield is a more telling example of Liverpool's problems than this more recent draw. With Torres, Keane and Alonso on the pitch, the Reds having more than 65% of the possession, the team was unable to crack the Potters open. At the Brittania, it was more a case that the midfield of Lucas, Benayoun, Riera and Mascherano didn't provide the kind of service that Kuijt could capitalize on, and Gerrard's efforts didn't pay off, either.

I don't think I've seen a player be so up and down as Lucas Leiva. It's as if he had an evil twin.

Liverpool has drawn 7: Fulham, West Ham, Arsenal, Stoke twice, Hull City and Villa. Villa was an away match, so one point isn't terrible.

Hull City is 8th. Fulham is now in the top half, 9th on GD, undefeated in their last 9. West Ham lies 10th.

 

We can argue Rafa's player selection until we all go blue in the face.

Am I the only one that thought the players played like crap today?

I thought this might have been Gerrard's worst match of the season. The rest of the players had terrible touches, passes, etc. They did the simple things wrong today. My MOTM would be Hyypia or Skrtel.

If some posters still don't see my point, let me demonstrate. One, Riera's dribbling/decision making was poor. He held the ball for too long, and didn't pass it quick enough when it was needed. Lucas' passing was poor. He made the right decisions, but his passing technique was lazy and poor. Benayoun, Carragher, and others struggled with their touch of the ball.

So, before we throw Rafa to the wolves. Let us all remember that it is the players that win the matches. The side we had out there was more than capable of 3 points. Let us also give Stoke City a little bit of credit. Not a lot of credit, just a little. They were well organized. They stuck to their game plan and came close a couple of times to snatching three points from us.

I WAS MUCH MORE DISAPPOINTED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THE PLAYERS THAN I WAS OF RAFA'S TEAM SELECTION

Let's hope for a draw between Chelsea and Manchester United.

 

Yeah don't get me wrong, I think that generally Rafa is a great manager. He's doing wonderfully well to have Liverpool top of the table at the moment, but there are clearly problems there that we can all see, and I dont think I would have many people disagree with the idea that Liverpool should probably be at least 5/6 points better off than they currently are. Of course that's mainly due to lost points in games where Liverpool have dominated but either failed to create/convert chances.

I disagree that its all down to bad performances from the players however. Obviously that's a factor, but I would argue that its mainly down to an inability to adopt a more aggressive team setup to crack and stretch these defences.

My solution would be to use Gerard in one of the deep lying midfield spots and give him licence to get forward all the time, play Keane in Gerard's usual position, and play Riera and Babel on the wings against these teams. This way Liverpool will have more firepower coming through the middle, and they will also have two out and out aggressive wingers to stretch defences in the channels. I like Kuyt as a player a lot, but I think his attacking contribution is limited from wide right. He gets forward and occasionally gets goals of course, but he rarely gets the ball into the box in a threatening manner, the way that Babel and Riera could potentially do if given starting spots in the same lineup.

I know I wouldn't relish facing a Liverpool line-up that set up along these lines

-----------Torres-----------
------------Keane----------
Riera------Gerrard------Babel
-----Mascherano or Alonso-----

I know that's extremely offensive but sometimes that's what's needed. The formation and team setup is basically identical to normal except you allow Gerard more freedom and confer more defensive responsibility on Mascherano. When not in possession Keane and Gerrard would of course drop back and clog the middle, but when in possession they can both cause huge problems through being extremely difficult to pick up.

 

I thought Sami was poor as well. There was one instance where he had the ball and decided to take it up the field, having a myriad of options to pass it to, he ran into a crowd of Stoke players and lost it. Everyone was off their game.

 

Lucas turned 22 yesterday, he's the man handed the ignition keys to the LFC machine with Xabi in the shop (yes, a car metaphor!).

The first sub should have come at 60'. Lucas off, Torres on:

----------Back 4----------
-----Gerrard--Masch-------
Yossi------------Riera/Babel
----Kuyt-----Torres

Have Kuyt at SS, and give the keys to the team to Gerrard.

That is all.

 

Poor all round performance. No one played well. Very disappointed. Not much else to say really. Hoping Chel$ki and Manure draw.

 

Crap starting XI. Crap performance.

 

You're not the sharpest tool in the box now are you?

 

We had 9 internationals on the pitch, with three of them captains of their respective nations. Torres, Xabi and Arbeloa at the moment would be the only inclusions into that starting XI for Yossi, Lucas and Hyypia.

 

Is Agger injured, because Skrtel clearly shouldn't have started if that's the case. Reina looked uncomfortable playing behind him and Sami, he made a couple mistakes that could have cost us. Yossi isn't starting material, Lucas is too inconsistant, Masch didn't have his best game. Stevie's head was in the clouds and Kuyt was terrible. Maybe the starting line-up wasn't as bad as I thought, but we were still sorry.

 

Not as laughable as your inability to read properly. The whole point of my post was that using any single game to draw broad conclusions about anything is pointless. Is, indeed, laughable.

Newcastle have conceded fewer goals, lost fewer games and won more points than Stoke. Unless you can think of any other yardstick that can usefully be applied here, I'd say the discussion was over, wouldn't you?

 

That was my point as well.

I remember that Hyypia incident. It was just another example of our players off their game.

 

And that,young master Clark, is how I see it too. One pretty bad game is what I saw. There are 38 games in this season. Why should Liverpool be this many points ahead? Why not Arsenal, Chelsea or Aston Villa?

 

We have dropped points unnecessarily. Perhaps even yesterday (although as I say, for me this was the most predictable result we'll have all season). But so has every other side. Our away record is excellent. I see no reason to lay an egg after one disappointing performance. Get back to me when we've pissed the four-point lead away and someone else is leading the title race.

 

It was a frustrating game but I believe it was Shankly who said the league is a marathon not a sprint. Before the season began I thought we would be in the mix and I would have taken being top come January.
I still dare to dream although I'm still not convinced that we have the depth to go all the way. But I will take every game as it comes and it certainly is gonna be an interesting rest of the season.
I know we'll be up for the Everton game so I'm not worried about us putting in a top performance there.
YWNWA

 

You'll Never Walk Alone

 

Just watched wigan beat the spurs I dont know why something abt wigan was just good I wish Liverpool played that way yesterday.