Israeli Airstrikes in Gaza

Its funny to hear IM talk about 60 years of history and him not have a clue as to what happened. Had not Egypt and Jordan screwed over the palis, they would have had a nation at the same time Israel got theres rightfully back.

I have already cited the source and historical fact of this. But IM prefers to ignore it because it doesn't help his anti-jew stance.

As for iran, they have deeper concerns to worry about. Such as building some homes that are at least 2.2 magnitude Earthquake safe, not to mention that with all their oil and natural gas reserves, they lack the refineries to make there own fuel. Plus with there dilapidated and outdated military, they are incapable of using any force other then supply terrorists to fight Israel.

If they attempted to fight Israel with there own forces, they wouldn't make it 20 miles into Iraq before being beat down by superior US forces.

All iran has to offer here are empty threats and posturing. With people like im spouting there propaganda to try and make people think they are important.

As for Israel and the past 60 years, they have easily survived arab/muslim aggression to build their nation and have even gained ground from there aggressors while they tried to drive the Jews into the sea.

 

Odd, but the land that was set to become the State of Israel in 1948 was overwhelmingly Jewish. Odd again, the land that would have been Palestinian was where most of the Palestinians lived. Israel had no intention of taking over Palestinian land.

The problem, however, was that all the Arab countries in the region would never allow a Jewish country to exist even though the land was overwhelmingly Jewish. So they decided to attack, but Israel won. Israel was not the aggressor in 1948 nor were they the aggressor in 1967. These were not wars to gain land but to protect their sovereignty. I guess its the Jews fault though that the Arabs failed in their wars against Israel and lost some land. Its nice for Israel to have that buffer to prevent future attacks, especially in the Golan Heights because they can see down into Syria. It is a huge strategic advantage that can help prevent attacks.

 

Thats not true: Crusades and WWII. Those are building blocks. If I lost a big battle, I too would establish propensities. All this lavishness about Kill Isreal. Those people are always there. Its what drives them but to ignore such simple puzzle peices. Shouldn't wag any tails.

 

I don't know how this is a serious question?

The groups Israeli has been fighting are those allied to Iran. Hamas, a more recent recruit, and Hezbollah, which was founded by Iran and is clearly on Iran's side. And then there is Syria, which the Israelis have offered the Golan Heights in return for ending its strategic relationship with Iran. The rest of the Arab world has largely quit fighting Israel and are no longer relevant.

 

The reason it hasn't worked is simple: You people never accepted the plan in the first place. To do so would be an admission that the policies of the Muslim world against teh state of Isreal were WRONG from the beginning. Accepting it would also mean that you would be accepting responsibility for all those have died on both sides of the conflict.

Yet you refuse the accept such responsibilities because you can't accept a state of "people" who you fear will kidnap and kill your children for unproven religious practices.

 

You choose to ignore yourself that the Jews were living on that land long before there was even a concept of a Jewish state. You ignore it because it goes against your belief that Israel has a right to exist.

Your South Africa example is even more stupid since that was an actual guerrilla war than the indiscriminate actions carried out by Hamas. Even the post-apartheid TRC recognized that when they condemned those that committed attacks against civilians.

Someone like you should tell others to see the truth given your own ignorance about the world around you.

 

And I don't know if you have really checked it...

Aren't the US forces supposed to leave Iraq soon? Well, maybe it's better to stay there a few more years.

 

2011 is when they are to leave according to the agreement. Just as soon have them home next week though.

 

Btw: It looks like the Israeli army really prepares for a ground invasion. I hope they know what they are doing (Hamas surely doesn't totally fear such a scenario for some reasons). If there will be a high number of casualties among the civilians and also among the IDF forces, the Israeli government could face a tough time.


Una notte piacevole.

 

We believe in freedom of speech here in BigSoccer America. Why don't you go back where you came from and censor some more cartoonists.

 

This is hands down one of the dumbest most ignorant posts i have ever seen. Why don't you get some intellect and formulate some serious critical arguments and lay off the anti-Semitic bullshit.

 

Well aside from your obvious ignorance of IM and his very long history of proposing 'solutions' which all include the dissolution of the state of Israel, you should at least try to learn for yourself what my post is in reference to and the history of the person you are trying to defend.

Now as for my post. What is dumb and ignorant about it?

Do you dispute that iran arms the terrorist groups hamas and hezbollah?
Do you dispute that iran is going to be some sort of magical force for peace in the region despite supporting the 2 largest terrorist groups?

Do you dispute the 2 state solution? What is your alternative?

The only part of my post you quoted that I would like to retract is my KKK comment. I have spoken with the mod about it and have asked that it be removed.

 

Yes i admit i am largely ignorant of IM's past history(could you give me some examples). But im glad you chose to retract that KKK statement. Because if there is one thing tht pisses me off is the anti-Semite label being thrown aroaund when you choose to question Israel. And if you read some of my past posts you'll see that i most definetly question the Israeli government and its actions.

 

Well read IM's post concerning his 'confederation' he has been pitching that idea for years here. All to the end of removing Israel as a nation. That is his goal.

I have no problem with anyone questioning Israel's Govt or there actions. They are not infallible, and deserve to be questioned just as any other Govt. should be.

IM sees the whole world as some big Jewish conspiracy. He thinks AIPAC runs the US, and given the chance I expect he would claim they are behind the NWO and the Illuminati.

 

Well, we don't really believe in free speech here in BigSoccer land, but as long as everyone stays within the Terms of Service, we do okay.

And johan, I tried to PM you but your box is full.

 

If an idea has merit, then those who are supposed to buy into the idea will buy into it, especially when the idea has such influential backers. At the time, backed by both the US and its allies as well as Soviet Russia and its allies.

Of course, the real problem to begin with was that those who proposed to the two state solution were not even interested in what the people in the region thought about it in the first place! They didn't count, as long as the idea could be sold to people sitting in far away capitals.

As I have said before, the idea of dividing up a baby in half (or cutting it up in some other pieces) is never going to be satisfying to the baby's genuine parents. Anyone who buys into that idea probably didn't have a real claim to the baby to begin with. Isn't that something you should have learned already from you biblical stories?

The claims to Palestine, by a group of recently implanted Jewish immigrants on the one hand, and the people who had lived in that land for centuries, were not equal. Nor was this some land situated in some part of the world where those who were bequething it away to others had any legitimate right to decide its future. To use a Moslem juridical term, the land was part of "Dar al Islam" for centuries; obviously, to remove it from the Islamic realm would not go without resistance. Not even by the small but growing secular Arab elites copying the west in their thoughts and manners, since that kind of a solution did not fit well with the notions of Arab nationalism that prevailed among these elites either.

The idea of a 2 state solution, whatever was meant by it, was to invite a lasting conflict in the region. That invitation was clear, or should have been, to anyone presuming to right perscriptions for that land. Since the idea was backed by powerful forces, and opposed by multitudes in an Islamic world that had declined considerably in power over centuries, it found enough room to be implemented. And as one side grew in power, and the other side proved ever more feeble in its resistance, many from the former side also began to think that the land should be all their's anyway: They had won it in war as so many other lands have been won, and it was promised to them in their scriptures to boot!

The issue of Palestine, as I suggested in my earlier messages, cannot be solved until two things happen: there is change in the balance of power and there is a different paradigm used to solve the problem. And Iran has a role to play in both those regards.

 

Certainly not as is, but we will only find out what Iran's government is willing to accept on the issue more generally if there are negotiations between Iran and the United States with no preconditions. I believe Iran would be willing to accept a Palestinian Confederation that includes Israel as a constituent member, provided Iran and the US solve their other issues as well. But once Iran accepts what I suggest, it will pave the way for others to accept it as well.

I certainly don't view Hezbollah or Hamas as enemies of peace, but the instruments that will allow real peace to come to the region. If there is going to be such peace, it will be made by those who actually represent their people and not groups that are set up in their positions by outsiders.

Hezbollah, a group that not only represents the majority of the shia population in Lebanon (itself the largest group in that country), but also a group that knows how to work with others such as the Christians in that country, is hardly what you prefer to paint it as being. The Middle East needs more groups like Hezbollah, not less, and to the extent Hamas genuinely follow Hezbollah's playbook, they will be alright.

Iran has a better idea on how to solve the problem and doesn't see why it should join solutions that neither work nor have merit.

If that is what you "all know", then you really don't know enough about either Iran's posture or that of its current president on the issue.

When your "solution" is the wrong one, it doesn't matter if Iran is standing on its way or not. It won't happen. As it hasn't happened for 60 years. There is no "two state" solution that would make either side happy when it comes to Jerusalem, to take an obvious example. And when the more powerful side (i.e., Israel) has a lot of constituents that aren't even all that committed themselves to the 2 state solution, much less on what to do about Jerusalem, the notion that you can work a deal with terms that would satisfy the other side is absurd. The deal Israel can offer to the Palestinians in light of its own domestic alignments is not one that any self-respecting or representative Palestinian leadership would accept.

 

Right! While Gaza inhabitants are indeed Palestinians, there is no county police in area. Only people trying to stop violence. Isreal... They're fed up with dangerous attempts. If Palestinians would attempt law and order in that area, Isreal might not even have to attack. I understand that but it still questions why rockets are fired in first place. I mean. Top end of 30,000 rockets in a course of time and peace talks emerge. To everyones likens no civil discourse in Gaza and few pictures of Isreal task forces excuting alledge bad people. Thats what has happen. Eventually governments will drive both sides to a more bloody war and let them really figure out whom is right.

A two state solution shouldn't be done here unless there is Palestinian over sight. GAZA is way to small to do that and Isreal is realing. But since there is no action from outside overseers. That means this might not have any authorization from Palestine.

Irans invovlement with certain groups although wrong in our eyes. Those might not be that bad (Two groups and a handful of extremeism which alot of secretive branches permit). US Government could've easily labled groups terrorist instead of protectors through certain activities. WHY? Becuase we might not be able to learn muslim government. I think. That is how a civilian clothes advesary would indicate.

 

I sure am. Graduated early from HS, in the top 10% of my class and did very well on all my SAT/ACT exams before they dumbed them down for all the foreigners. Had all kinds of colleges wanting me not just for for the NDN blood to sow how inclusive they were, but also for my dashing good looks.

[magic snip]

 

Why? Are you hoping it might go to finally get DC a stadium?

 

The immaturity of the posters here are mind-numbing, mods would be best to control the filth constantly being spewed.

 

If that's the way you feel, I hope you feel the same about canceling all other foreign aid we send to somewhat questionable governments and leaders, as well as canceling the billion and a half or so that goes to Egypt and the Mubarak government.

I did some research on US aid to Israel, not including the money used to assist in the resettlement of Jews from the Soviet Union and Ethopia, trying to use websites that didn't overtly call for the destruction of Israel and come up with a figure of about $100 billion since 1948.

To contrast this, we're spending anywhere between 9 billion and 12 billion a month in Iraq. A MONTH. There are thousands of expenditures in the US government budget that any number of people have moral or philosophical objections against, but being upset over $3 billion/year while spending 3/4 times that a month to prosecute the Iraq war seems to be worry about the hangnail on an almost severed finger.

I mean, for shitsake, aren't we talking about handing more money to GM in one day that all the money we've ever given to Israel. Why? So they can still build shitty cars