Zionism just means a right of Jews to a homeland in the middle east or where Jews/Hebrews/Isrealites, whatever you might call them originally came from and where they had their home historically. Some folks on this forum use this word as a racist epithet, thus it was banned in certain context.
So why is Abbas a traitor? Oh that's right, because he went to a peace conference with Israel. You do forget that Israel gave back Gaza, completely removing there forces and settlements, by force even. If it weren't for hamas there would be peace and Palestine would actually exist as a nation.
Your quote shows the issue with Zionist rhetoric: a) Isrealis did not earn their land, they stole it from Arabs. b) the suffering of Jews during the holocaust was not at the hands of Arabs, and the current crisis should never be justified by the atrocities of the holocaust c) Palestinians have had internal policitical strife, but much of this has been caused by Israel. Palestinians are angry an legitimately, they are the largest refugee group in the world. d) "hard work and intelligence": Israel has succeeded due to American subsidies. And the use of the word intelligence speaks to the arrogance that Israelis maintain to this day. Israelis are not better people than Palestinians aside from what some misquoted bible verse implies to you.
I totally agree that Hamas has really shot itself in the foot. However, I don't think that Gaza will exist. We were much closer at the time of Rabin, and somehow Israel contrived to avoid the implmenation of Oslo. As much as Gaza has Hamas, Israel has Likud. To blame Hamas for this, without looking at the extremists on the Israeli side, that have really caused so much of this is to be selectively argumentative.
Completely wrong - they won those land in a defensive wars of 48 and 67, they bought lands and it was Arabs who put Palestinians into refugee camps and they are keeping them there and use them as pawns agaist Israel. If Palestinians and other Arabs invested money into legitimate resources such as economy, health, education instead of violence, teaching kids with Mickey Mouse to hate Jews, maybe they would be better off.
No I do put the blame on Israel as well. But in the past 2-3 years it has been hamas that has submarined the peace process. There constant rocket attacks and refusal to acknowledge the existence of Israel just strengthens the position of those in Israel to fight against any state of Palestine. And the Kadima party was/is ready to draw up borders, but that isn't possible so long as you have a group dedicated to there destruction in place refusing to work towards peace at every turn no matter the cost. Hell hamas even fights violently with Fatah because Fatah is working towards a peaceful arrangement.
Now we stop talking. If you don't know even a simple fact of where Jews came from historically, your knowledge of everything else on this subject is laughable at best.
I'll ignore the errors in the rest of your post, as they aren't specific to the topic at hand, which is these airstrikes, as opposed to the creation of Israel issue. It is hard to invest money into legitimate activities such as economy when you are not allowed to trade. This is the crux of the matter at the moment - the Israelis will not accept a renewal of the period of calm, which has been offered numerous times by Hamas both before and after these attacks, because they will not lift the blockade. Both Egypt and Israel have therefore tried to strangle the Palestinian people as a whole (not Hamas, it is not only Hamas who trade with the outside world but Pali civilians). I am out of here for now. I don't wanna get involved in the broader discussion of the existence of Israel, that has been done to death already in previous threads.
Really? Jews existed in Israel long before the religion of Islam was ever dreamed up. http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The British Mandate Looks like you are wrong again concerning the historical orgin. No shock there.
And Palestinian people lived in Jericho 6000 years before Judaism was ever dreamed up. That has nothing to do with the current airstrikes on Gaza Again, nothing to do with the recent airstrikes
If you took a look at some of my postings from previous pages of this thread, you'd have noticed that I blamed the far right lobby in Israel as well. However, since you mentioned to concur with Hamas, I think it's useless having any serious discussion. Now definitely good night.
Howdy all, Looks like its time for a calming moment in the face of terrible time for lots of people. I wholly understand heated feelings emerging from this, but the bounds of civil discourse still need to prevail in this forum. I will give nlsanand the benefit of the doubt and assume s/he was unaware of the forum rule on zionist/zionism as we haven't had it come up as a major issue herein some time. Some of the rest of you might want to consider "lighter" ways of addressing the use thereof - a reported post is appreciated.
What? You can't be serious now. There were people called Philistinians, that have as much to do with Palestinians as I have with being a Zimbabwan. Palestine is a made up name given by Romans and those Palestinians living in "Palestine" now are no different than those who lived in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc. Palestinian name as we use it now only cam in the last century, not 6000 years ago. But you're right, this has nothing to do with current situation. As your post about economy, why don't you tell me what happened with all those flowere and hogricultural plants/ manufactories that Israelis left behind in Gaza, that rich Jews of US bought from them to give to Palestinians? Do tell how in the first week, they destroyed EVRYTHING that was left for them to start over with some hope. Don't bs me about the opportunities that Palestinians had over the past 60 years as there were plenty. Read up about West Bank having one of the highest standards of living among all Arab nations during 70's and part of 80's until first intifada came and then the rise of Hamas and other terrorism groups.
And i suppose you believe that whilst most of the current Palis have nothing to do with historical Palis, current Israelis did not mainly emigrate from Europe, but can produce accurate family trees tracing their ancestry back six thousand years to the original conquerors of the ancient Palestinians? The people firing rockets on Askalon are likely the original inhabitants of Askalon: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...shkelon-is-the-most-tragic-irony-1216228.html Leave your idea of "history" for another thread. http://www.cjr.org/politics/gazas_greenhouses_get_the_time.php
Wow you are wrong on all counts again. Read the source I provided. You need the education. Now as for the air strikes right now, simply put, they would not be occurring had hamas not provoked them with the launching of hundreds of rockets into Israel. Well umarfm, you have now shown that you are ignorant of historical facts as well as current affairs. You just keep failing here. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/29/gaza.israel.strikes/index.html Seems like Israel is hitting the right targets.
This is sick. That crooked S.O.B Olmert going on t.v. saying Israel is completely justified in its response. 300+ Palestinians dead including civilian deaths. 2 Israelis dead. Every life is priceless but this is barbaric what the Isralei government is doing. I'snt this exactly what the U.S. and the West was pissed of at Russia for recently, overreacting militarily? The Israeli gov't needs to take a look at it's religious roots and realize that thir actions not justified but in fact outright diabolical.
yes, we heard this point already in this thread. Do you have anything new to add or are you just going to point fingers at the blood thirsty Jews and avoid any blame from the innocent, almost pure to the soul Palestinians? Religious roots? LMAO.
They never offer any realistic solutions. I guess the Israelis should just sit back and take those Qassams and Katyushas. And if it only kills or maims an Israeli here or there, why worry, since it only diminishes the population by an insignificant amount.
My point still stands - if not for Hamas and the constant security threat, Israel would not put so many barriers for palestinians, but as the true case stands, when Hamas uses every crossing and every possible route in/out of Gaza to smugle weapons, laundering money - what do you expect any nation to do to protect its citizens?
That's original. Answer me the following since you care about humanity and humane treatment of people - 30,000 rockets fired into ONLY civilian population of Israel over the last 30 months since Israel pulled out of Gaza, is that normal? Should Israel just accept the fact that on the northern border they got crazy, scum in Hezbollah with 50,000 rockets pointed at Israel and south they got Hamas with their Kassams - you thinkit's normal for people to live in bomb shelters all the time and for their own government not to do anything about it? Moreover, is it so HOLY and Islamic for Hamas, who claim they are solely an Islamic movement who preach Quran to be one of the most barbaric, cruel groups on this planet and how they use their OWN people to hide amongst? Not one Arab or Muslim nation have accepted Palestinians, not ONE -but you and many others expect Jews to embrace them. And they do, they offer peace over and over again, only to be welcomed back with scum such as Hamas. Channel your frustration into the right direction.
I got one thing to say to that. Look at history and this is what you get with occupation. Occupation can't and will not work. Algeria, Iraq, Afghanistan- it's all the same you could have the greatest military strength in the world (as Israel does thanks to it's AIPAC buddies) but occupied lands will always be hostile to its occupants. As for HAMAS it was completely democratically elected, backed by the Palestinians. Hezbollah is beloved in Lebanon for its public works. Its not surprisng for palestinians who live behind walls in poverty and with little opportunity to rise up as they did in the intifadas and as they are doing now through HAMAS. The messed up problem is that olmert and his thugs aren't just striking HAMAS but killing innocent lives children, in the process.
Your posts are one of the few bits of sanity left on this thread. Desperation with no hope will lead people to violence. THE VAST MAJORITY are not trying to rid all israelis, they are in starvation, ill health, and are left with no future. When Israel as a whole decides to treat the Palestinians justly then you will have a change in the region because all the pressure will be on the Palestinians to not commit attacks. I am an American and witnessed first hand the humiliation and mistreatment of the Palestinians. There was one Israeli city that treated the Palestinians fairly and gave them more rights than in other places and that town had one of the lowest figures of violence between the groups. The fact that the Israeli govt wont even try to do this as a whole shows they have no intention for peace with the Palestinians.