Thats right. However all Hamas isn't Military. So why would air strikes continue to schools, hospital and a university, Sounds like a sniff of buttox as oppose to whereabouts of electrical soldiers...
Neither do the Israelis care about who they kill. I have said the targeting of civilians is wrong, whichever side it is. If you do the math you notice that the Israelis kill many more civilians than the Palestinian groups (currently about 150 Palestinian dead for each Israeli dead, usually the ratio is about 80-1 in these conflicts), so the law of probability suggests i might usually be about 80 times more critical of Israel than the Palestinians. BTW the "Israeli" killed was apparently an Arab Israeli. So i mourn for him regardless of his acceptance of Israeli nationality. But again, thank you for making my position on the whole conflict clear on my behalf, it is nice to know i have a spokesman on these matters when i am away. You might want to be careful though - the Israelis seem to think that spokespeople are legitimate targets.
So if he weren't an arab then you wouldn't mourn him? Gotcha. You are about as bad as ITN. Of course it is debatable on the number of civilians killed in Gaza as hamas typically don't wear uniforms to ID their miltary from the population. So these numbers are to be taken with a large grain of salt.
I'm 100% sure that neither I, nor you, nor crow, nor umarm know what the intentions of IDF hitting those targets are. We have no clue what the intelligence reports say about Hamas's military wing locations and places of operations. However, simply b/c it's been fairly often when a member of Hamas would use a non-military/civilian infrastructure or a location close to that infrastructure to either hide or launch rockets, we cannot simply dismiss the notion that Israel is NOT targeting military folks. Could IDF have gone in with soldiers to those areas? Maybe, but the loss of life might not be reduced for Palestinians and would definitely increase for IDF.
Also if these rocket attacks occur over a period of time. Like its suggested and possibly true. There must be a threashold number to endure before such retalitory examples are set forth. I mean. Isreal still appears to not show a ground game. This is done by not puttng ground forces into action. I am not trying to run military but for alot of rockets and not much advancement by ground forces seems like the Chronicals of Nardia. Bullish and Bearish to say the least. Your response address this I see.
You could say the same thing about the Hamas rocket-launchers - who knows what their intentions are? I mean, they might be targeting males of conscription age, and unfortunately innocent civilians are being caught up in this through no fault of Hamas Attacking police, universities, municipal or government buildings and mosques with F-16's is completely unacceptable. This is not me simply saying this because i sympathise with the Gazans. I said clearly during the Balkan conflict when NATO forces attacked the TV station that it was a war crime, and i stick by that. And that was when NATO was bombing Milosevic's Serbia, a country guilty of genocide against Muslims in Bosnia and also many crimes against mainly Muslim Kosovars. I criticise when war crimes are committed in support of Muslims, and when they are committed against Muslims. Currently, Israel is committing war crimes by targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure, as well as breaching humanitarian law with the siege.
I'm sorry umarfm, but I will not debate this with you b/c it's rather pointless. Your posts are not rude or inflamatory, so I will give you the same treatment. However, after reading the bolded part of your post, I am simply deciding to avoid any sort of rational discussion on this issue with you.
The referenced Kassam rocket launchers used by Hamas against Israel are typically and usually located along civilian structures and/or religious buildings. Hamas terrorists have deliberately used this tactic so that Israel will not target them; now Israel is targeting them. Your argument is against Hamas - not Israel - for locating military offensive equipment in civilian sites. Need evidence? Here (Note video of Hamas terrorists firing rockets and mortars from UNRWA boys' school in Gaza [31 Oct 2007]).
It's well beyond this. Hamas also purposely locates major weaponery caches amongst residential apartments and other clearly civilian structures. Also, after everyone was so quick to castigate the Israelis for bombing an Islamic university, we find out that it wasn't just students studying calculus: "IAF aircraft bombed the Islamic University and government compound in Gaza City early Monday morning, both centers of Hamas power. Witnesses saw fire and smoke at the university, counting six separate air strikes there just after midnight. Two laboratories in the university, which served as research and development centers for Hamas's military wing, were targeted. The development of explosives was done under the auspices of university professors. University buildings were also used for meetings of senior Hamas officials. The IDF said rockets and explosives were stored in the buildings." http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230111723191&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Of course violence should never be the answer, since it only generates more hatred ... but if a country gets continously attacked by hundreds of rockets, it has the right to defend its citizen in the south! I'm not siding with anybody but just see the whole things realistically! Hamas may be the clear underdogs in this conflict, but that doesn't mean that they deserve my sympathy! They provoked the Israeli reaction and have to live with the consequences now! Whom I pity, are the civilians in Gaza (being hostages of militants). The situation of the people in Gaza could be A LOT better if Hamas didn't misuse international aid for buying weapons (that's why Gaza got less & less financial support from the EU and even Arab countries) instead of investing in medical care and education! This organization isn't really interested in improving the situation of the population in Gaza but in recruiting more & more children for its silly ideology! Btw: Hamas provoked this conflict because they got more & more isolated internationally and hoped to get some reputation among the Arab world (what seems to work only concerning the streets, since none of the Arab governments - except for Iran, which isn't Arab though - have many sympathies for them). Unfortunately, Israel did them this favour with the current airstrikes (when you see the reactions of the Arab street) ... but it could also be the end of Hamas if the Israeli government should decide to send troups to Gaza, so the militants may have miscalculated the effect of their strategy.
That is right, InTheNet. However shouldn't this school in question loss the right for such title. I know. If a school takes on another country, it should be called something else. That situation thinks of Taps with Mr. Tom Curise amongst others.
Yes, the Israelis and the Americans blew there chance when they had someone they could at least work with -- Abbas -- put him in untenable situations and caused the defeat of fatah by hamas. I honestly am beginning to believe that Israel and the US don't want peace, peace is bad for certain client businesses. Of course, having said all of this doesn't mean that I don't blame Hamas. I do. They're ridiculous, and encapsulate all the worst things about the most extreme aspects of middle eastern muslim society at the moment. Nevertheless, it's like we never learn. We don't ahve to like Abbas, but we should've know he was our best opportunity. By the time the Israelis and the US started working with him it was too late.
It's amazing how much misinformation and ignorance you've managed to fit into three short sentences. Since you didn't persue this line of "argument" any further, and it was 12 pages ago, there's no point in going into detail about just how grossly--almost offensively--wrong you are. Suffice it to say that waging a race-war against the largest ethnic group of a democratic, UN-member state, and unleashing heavily-armed paramilitary death squads against unarmed secular Muslim civilians is no sane person's idea of "fighting terrorism." In Bosnia, the terrorists were Christians. That said--while I'm of the school that says Israel too often gets a pass in the American press, and I firmly believe that the Palestinian people are the main victims of the 50-plus year war over the "Holy Land", I also believe that Israel is too often demonized in many other circles and in the media of many other countries; furthermore, truce offers or not--Hamas is not a reliable partner for peace in the region, nor a viable long-term political and civic option for the people of Gaza. The sooner they're gone, the better. And then hopefully the international community can help the people of Gaza rebuild their civil society and economic infrastructure.
The guilt here, Damon, is with Hamas terrorists chiefly, and to a lesser extent with the Palestinians themselves, for allowing Hamas to exist as they do, certainly not with the schools that suffer. The offensive rocker launchers and mortar batteries, cowardly sited by Hamas near or in close proximity to civilian structures, schools, or religious buildings, rather than out in the open, is in itself a war crime of tremendous proportions that the Palestinians must bear on behalf of Hamas. When the Hamas terrorists fire these rockets blindly (since they lack precise internal guidance) at civilian targets in Israel, then their war crime is compounded. This issue will end only when the Palestinians themselves rise up against Hamas, or Israel exterminates them. One way or the other, Hamas needs eviction.
Are you Hassan Nasrallah in disguise? If you're such a Hamas sympathisant, why don't you move to Gaza?
killing that many palestinian civilians, it is obvious this is not a war with hamas, this is a war against every palestinian, man, woman, or child. Only the foolish would think it is ok to repeatedly kill that many civilians in hopes of killing a few hamas members, it is barbaric and inhumane.
Those were all Hamas strategical and tactical targets - shame on Hamas for using schools, universities, hospitals, police station, etc as as their means to plan terrorist attacks. It's HAMAS who is barbaric and inhumane. IDF intelligence spent almost a year planning this, figuring out where Hamas was, not just randomly firing into civilians, thus 95% of casulaties are hamas. Unfortunately the other 5% are civilians. Blame Hamas for that.
I know what you are saying, and I agree, however looking at the West Bank where Abbas has his power base, and looking at Gaza where hamas has there power base, it isn't the west bank that is suffering. And Abbas and Israel have been able to work togethar fairly well so far. The real sticking points have been over Gaza and much of that is due to hamas and there stance towards Israel. I do think that if hamas were not in the equation, that right now we would be very close to seeing the nation of Palestine FINALLY come to fruition. Israel still has concessions to make, but they have done quite a bit to work with Abbas including the recent release of hunderds of prisoners. The sad part is that there are too many innocents in Gaza that have already suffered and will suffer even more now that the violence has escalated. And I place the majority of the blame for this on hamas because they refuse to accept reality of Israel and refuse to follow the lead that Fatah took in the west bank and try to work out a peaceful co-existence.
Really? Quite an ignorant statement to make. How many Palestinians in West Bank are being bombed and attacked right now? After all, you said EVERY palestinian.
Are you going to deny that Israel bear responsibility for they themselves creating the situation they're in? If a big kid bullies a smaller kid and the smaller kids reacts with violence, who are you going to blame?
Anyway my two cents: the way you stop violence is to take away the reasons for people to want to start being violent. People who are fed, healthy, educated and who feel safe in their homes don't feel the need for violence. The Palestinian every man is exactly the same as the Israeli every man. They all want peace and stability and a better future for their kids. That is what makes this whole situation so unfairly balanced. the Israeli every man knows that despite the threat of terrorist attacks, there's still a good chance of having a fairly happy existence. The Palestinian knows he has no hope of that whatsoever. And people really ask themselves why Palestnians resort to violence? What would you do in the same situation? Just accept that your children grow up with no hope for a future? As for the Israeli people, if you're about, can I ask you a serious question. What is more important to you, land or peace and stability. I know I'm not really in a position to comment but if the Dutch province of Friesland threatened with a war if they didn't get independence, I say let them have their independence if that's what the majority of the Frysians want. I just don't get it.
And what does this have to do with the Palestinians who actually live there? The great great irony of all of this is that we in the west just assume that we know that people in muslim countries think. We don't - we know what their leaders think, not what the people think. If you can read Dutch I advise you to read 'Het zijn net mensen' by Joris Luyendijk who spent years in the region as a foreign correspondent. And what I as a westerner feel seriously embarrassed about is that so many of us assume that muslims by nature are ideologists. Why would you think that? Why is it so outside our realm of thinking to believe that Palestinians want exactly the same things we want in life? My country supported both Israel and the Palestinians. With Dutch money the Palestinians built a port and and airport and it was all blown to pieces shortly afterwards by the Israelis. Why in gods name the western world puts up with all of this is beyond me, it seriously is.
There's many questions what might be behind Hamas' strategy to stop the truce and provoke an Israeli strike by continously firing missiles at the southern cities of Israel. Here's 2 interesting articles: CLICK 1 CLICK 2 Btw: I've just read that Egypt offered to take all wounded persons from Gaza, but this was rejected by the Hamas leader. Well, it shows the true face of this organization...