Though its not half the roster, out coach does change it up every single match. Has he ever played the same guys 2 matches in a row? Answer: No.
That a bat shit insane idea. VDB is the reason we could make the playoffs and you want to get rid of him. He has been worth every penny this year.
Exactly. Who in their right mind would get rid of VDB? He's been, arguably, our MVP this season. RB fans are a strange bunch sometimes.
You're right. I am as dumb as they come. Let me ask you this, what have we won with this guy on the team? Last year he was demoted to left back because he was more serviceable as a left back than he was on the wing. What is the reason for that? He is a very technical player who does not possess any pace at all. On top of that he is getting older now. Maybe I should pull up all the posts from this past offseason where we were begging to get rid of this guy. He scored two goals last year in 29 games played. What makes you think that he is what we are seeing this year and not what we saw last year? Just because he has one good year does not mean that all of a sudden he is not replaceable. We must remember that we keep players on this roster based on what they will be able to produce going forward and not what he did this year. What makes you think he will be able to duplicate this next year? Has he had two consecutive great years ever? I think not. Prove me wrong. Do you want a guy on the team taking up approx. 10% of our roster hoping that he is able to do something he has never done in his career? How old is VDB? That's right 32. How many players get better at 32 then they have been in other points in their career? All I am saying is that we need to buy low and sell high. His value will never be higher than it is right now. That's when you get rid of a player. Not when he is benched next year. What will you be able to get for him then? Does the name Chris Henderson do anything for anyone on this board? The situation is almost exact. Look up the stats. Just remember we had this conversation because next year when he is on the bench I'll remind you. By the way, just because someone says something that you disagree with intially does not mean that they are "as dumb as they come".
Last year, I was asking for his trade or something, because Arena was confusing him, he line him one game as a LB with no body in the LM or lining him as a LM with no body in LB and his production was a mess, but my opinion was wrong because I never before see him playing, but this year Osorio have him all year around as a LM and he been playing fantastic footy for us, this year he has been the best player of the RB, a consistent player game in, game out, and is a crazy idea just to thing in removing him from the team now.... David VD Berg is the MVP this year for the Red Bulls, and never no body can say, that he has knowledge's of a team to let go a player from the team that win a MVP title because is a lousy player...In that case we have to send packing the 28 players in the roster, including Angel, because in all category, DvdBerg, been playing better than Angel too....
Metz, Nobody is saying that VDB is a lousy player. You may want to read the post again. That's not what I am saying. He was good this year. If you bring him back next year it's because you think that he can be just as good next year. You are basing your assumption of next year on absolutely nothing. In fact, historically at age 32 a player's production drops off. His own stats year by year have been shaky. That's the point. You can not simply look at his production this year and say we have to keep him forever. That's not a smart idea. Especially at the price tag that comes with him (10% of total salary cap). If he drops off in form next year like I am predicting he will you are left with nothing. I have asked anyone who can prove to me that this MLS journeyman will improve with age to please explain what they are basing that assumption on. I do not believe you have done so as of yet. If this guy is able to produce at this rate next year then I will be proven wrong but you have to look at the history of this team and league and come to the realization that it is very rare. If we had named the thread "who should be let go from this team based on their production this year alone" I would agree with you. That's not what I think the idea was behind this thread. I thought the question was if you were the Red Bulls Front Office what roster moves would you make to improve the club. Sometimes you need to be a step ahead. You can't make moves when they are obvious because you will receive absolutely nothing in return. That's the point.
Well, until now, his performance on the field has been superb this year and we can't assume that he will not perform the same in five months from now, so, why we don't wait until next year and see, Angel is 33 years old and I don't here no body assumption to drop him because he is over the hill....
That was a valid response Metz. The problem with that logic though is that JPA is on a different level than VDB. Much better player with a better pedigree. That's why he is our DP. If we do keep VDB until his form drops off then we will not get anything for him in return once he does leave the team. Honestly, I think we have caught lightning in a bottle this year with VDB and would be very surprised to see him come back and do it again next year. Keep in mind that we are talking about a player that has NEVER had two consecutive good years in his career and is now 32 years old. I think we would both agree that JPA has had more than two good years in his career back to back. I hope just as much as you do that I am wrong if they decide to keep VDB for next year but to suggest that I am an idiot for even bringing it up is debatable at best.
How about Jon Conway and Jeff Parke? I have a feeling both of them won't be in Red Bull uniforms for awhile if ever.
I was looking at the full roster for Red Bull this year and I cant believe how many players we have that see very little to no minutes. Of course some of these guys are depth--every team needs a good bench---but a lot of these guys are dead weight too. To me it seems like there's been a lot of team mismanagement. (then again that may be the most obvious thing ive ever posted) I'll put the entire roster on here and I'll leave it up to you to decide who belongs on here and who doesn't: HERE IS THE FULL NY RED BULLS ROSTER: GK (4 players): Jon Conway, Danny Cepero, Terry Boss, Caleb Paterson-Sewell DEFENSE (8 players): Andrew Boyens, Gabriel Cichero, John Gilkerson, Kevin Goldthwaite, Diego Jimenez, Chris Leitch, Carlos Mendes, Jeff Parke MIDFIELD (12 players): Danleigh Borman, Gordon Kljestan, Matt Mbuta, Michael Palacio, Juan Pietravallo, Dane Richards, Jorge Rojas, David (Lee) Roth, Luke Sassano, Seth Stammler, Sinisa Ubiparipovic, Dave VanDenBergh STRIKER (6 players): Juan Pablo Angel, Oscar Echeverry, Macoumba Kandji, Mike Magee, Saine Touray, Jon Wolyniec QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER: Do we really need 4 Goalkeepers? How is it possible we have 12 players at midfield and we still haven't found someone who can consistently arm the attack and distribute the ball? How come we have 6 players at forward and Juan Pablo Angel is still the only one that can be counted on for consistent production? ( I understand Kandji needs time he was just signed) I'm not even going to say anything about the defense--Osorio has been playing musical chairs all year with the defense but apparently there's only so many ways you can mix and match 8 players......The goals allowed over the past 3 weeks speak for themselves.
Honestly I really want to know more although we have what they took what products did they use that's my question. I won't judge them until I know or at least have an idea of the crap that they bought.
Yes we need 4 GKs, as you see now we have 3 and one injury or suspension then you are down to 2. Imagine if you had only one goalie available during the game and he pulls a muscle, we dont have Gaven to play goalie for us anymore The other two answers are simple: most of the players are not very good, or were just added recently to prove their worth. Honestly besides vdB, Angel, Stammler, Parke and Richards is there even anyone that fans will miss?
After last game I say keep: Angel, PC Richards, Kanji, Mbuta, Stams, Jimenez, Cepero, VDB, Parke, Conway,maybe Boyens and the young dev guys that salary does not count against us. Anyone else I say, let's see if we could do better. Boyens has actually looked good the second half of the year and does have nice size. Maybe Goldy too though not sure due to $ issues.
I have no idea why people still have a hard on for Richards.... everyone has figured him out ! and for $30 ? You HAVE to be able to find a replacement at that price. Mbuta already looks like a much better alternative. The biggest problem with the squad is THERE IS NO MIDFIELD ! I cannot place the entire fault on the defenders seeing as how they are obligated to be defending the entire 90 minutes. With two genuine ball handlers in the middle, it would change the entire look of the team. No more long bombs from Goldie/Cichero straight to Angel, better service to the forwards, and some semblence of technical soccer. And they don't need a DP midfielder either. If other teams can find a Morales, Derosario, Toja, CGomez, why can't RB?
I realize you are new here my friend so let me explain to you how this works. If you even suggest on these boards that we get rid of one of our fan favorites others will attack you. Please make sure that you agree with what everyone else is saying (especially Metz) because an original thought on here is just not acceptable. As far as what you said above though, I agree completely. There are a few players on this team that should go to correct this problem. I have seen Richards take the ball and run into the corner over and over and over again. The guy could not cross the ball to save his life. Incredible pace but not much else. If we could somehow give some of that pace to VDB as well as years in age we'd have a perfect player in VDB. Richards should be sat down until he improves. Mbuta is a better option at this point. We will need another midfielder but at $30k we will not find anyone much better. We will need to free up a non-DP spot for a little bit of money to sign a player of the caliber that you mentioned above. $30k will not do it. Others on this board will have you believe that next year when Rojas is put on the books for his full amount as well as Cichero among others (i.e. Kandji) that somehow we will still have enough money to make the type of improvements to our midfield while still keeping everyone else on the team. BOY, $2.3 million stretches pretty damn far these days! In other words, unless you can come up with someone we should do away with to free up some money under the cap we are all out of options. We will have the trio of VDB, Richards, and Mbuta there for some time. At the salary that Mbuta and Richards are at it will be next to impossible to keep the young guys for very long as we have no money to pay them what they should be getting paid. In case you are starting to think that you may have identified one player on this team that has overachieved and is making a little bit of change that plays the midfield position (never had two consecutive good years in his career and is now 32) PLEASE do not say it out loud! Let's go Red Bulls!
I understand what you are saying Branc3399 , but let me put it to you this way. Why sign a second DP whose salary would take a 400G hit on the cap when you could "upgrade" at 4 positions @ 100,000 a piece? If richards is only worth 30, we should be able to get a much better player at 100 don't you think?
Yes. I agree completely. The problem is that the team will probably not have that money next year unless they make some changes. We did not have Rojas, Cichero or Kandji count against the cap this year like they will next year. When the dust clears from that I am not sure how much of that $400k we will have left. I understand that a lot of allocation money was used on Rojas which would translate into cap money next year. Same with Cichero. Somehow Kandji is counting very minimally against the cap right now as well. Those three numbers will have to go up for next year. Hopefully we offset that by getting rid of some players. I think after seeing Cepero this past week we could have Conway taken off the books. It was one game so I don't want to say that would be a good move quite yet. Not sure. In summary, your idea is dead on in my opinion the point is that I am not sure we will have the money to make it work next year without making some moves.
to your first point: ive been saying this for months now, richards has the speed to blow by people, but doesnt have the talent to do anything with the ball once hes past them, his service sucks and he knows that so most of the time we get to see him try and dribble thru people which doesnt work. to your second point: we dont have a consistent midfield, thursday against the fire i hope we see a 4-4-2 with stammler-rojas-VDB-petra in the midfield. those are the four that were constant when we went on our to get back into this thing. up top, the best pair is proven to be angel and magee when we have a steady lineup that can control the field and give good service to them so they can do their job
Branc3399 , the 4-5-1 is an awful formation for any team in any league ... I hate it with a passion. There is no excuse in my opinion for playing with a lone striker . any other formation is better than that one don't you think? Angel needs a partner, any partner... one question... who do you play, stammler or pietra? can't play both, we need more offense ! in my opinion, anyway. i cant stand watching a formation with 5, even six defenders.
yea, you take kandji out, and play a second forward, magee, up top with angel this hasnt happened more than once since they went on that hot streak a month and a half ago, and now that everyone is available and healthy for this game, i dont see why you dont go with a 4-4-2 or even a 3-5-2 if we are trailing at the half, thats when you take out a defender and put kandji in to supply more speed on the side to get the forwards the ball britton, with petra in, stammler usually moves forward, and they kid has a shot, so i dont mind seeing both in the game, they help control the ball and both provide great service forward i think it should be angel-magee ---rojas---- vdb---stammler --petra---- gold-boyens-cichero-leitch and if we are trailing after 45, then we take out leitch and put kandji in to fuel the offense and provide a spark ----angel-magee -------rojas---- vdb-------------kandji --petra---stammler-- Gold--cichero--boyens any objections?