Ridiculous. He is an automatic choice for Liege if healthy and and a perennial league Best XI selection. Liege never gets to that match to lose it without Onyewu.
Seems to me you're reaching quite a bit here. I don't know how you can claim the first video supports your description as opposed to, say, a poorly executed offside trap with the left back keeping the goalscorer on or any number of alternative hypotheses. The critical moves all happen off camera. As for the second goal, how you manage to single out Onyewu to blame when the problem was shabby play in the midfield turning the ball over, which has unfairly made many a defense look undressed, is equally puzzling. In my opinion, Onyewu's been a bit of a disappointment over the last couple of years, in the US colors, at least. I'd hoped for more (still do, in fact). But the amount of time and energy some posters expend slagging the guy seems all out of proportion with reality.
Gooch = best defender in a third-tier league like Belgium or Czech --- who cares? That's the point. Players from third-tier leagues very seldom attract the interest of top teams --- and for very good reason. Players from MLS-level leagues (fifth-tier?) attract even less attention, particularly if there is no marketing tie-in to the USA. Any comments about Gooch's so-called dominance in the weak Jupiler League completely miss the point. In that key loss to Steaua Bucharest, Standard Liege had its clearly best chance over the past several years to make it to the promised land of 6 group stage games and millions of dollars and increased prestige of playing against Real Madrid and Lyon. There was no Liverpool-quality team in the way in that third-round play-in. Steaua was good but decidely beatable. In that game, Gooch was out of position on the first goal (primarily because he could not handle a speedy forward), then argued angrily with the coach at halftime, then was so far out of the play for the second goal initially that other posters were tricked into thinking that he was not at fault. He was then dumped by the coach to the bench. This was a real stinker of a game by Gooch and it cost Standard Liege tons of money. BS anti-logic ---> Gooch could not be held responsible for the second goal resulting from the miscue in the midfield. Why, after all, he had clearly turned his back on the Steaua team's best scorer and he was strolling, strolling, strolling away even while the Steaua attack developed. So how could Gooch (defensive team captain and coordinator of the team's defense) be held responsible for the goal against Standard down Gooch's defensive lane?! Gooch was so far out of the play in so many ways that he shouldn't be blamed, right? Yes. There was a miscue in midfield. More pertinently, Gooch was TOTALLY out of position and way too slow to react to the counterattack by Steaua headed up by alert Badea, the man Gooch was supposed to be guarding. Who denies that? No team wants a player who does that. Teams want players who help them earn millions, not players who fight with their coach in the process of screwing the team out of millions of dollars with poor play. And it's certainly not just that one game. Here are the other games. Steaua Bucharest 2-1, Celta Vigo 3-0 and 1-0, and Zenit 3-0 and 1-1 ---> a truly putrid and not competitive 0-4-1 2-10 -8. You see, Belgian teams are generally in well over their heads playing in European tournaments. Anderlecht recently set a futility record of 8 to 10 straight losses in a row in Champions League play a few years back. And Anderlecht is generally considered the top, toughest team in Belgium. In summary, Gooch is playing lights out in the Jupiler League ----> nobody cares! Gooch's club teams have certainly not performed well in European tournaments and he was culpable during the most important loss. He also foolishly and petulantly produced two yellow cards for a red card at 40 minutes in another game that allowed the opponents to produce a late tie. Which part of zero wins in five games isn't clear here? Besides those two poor games, one sees two dominating losses by 0-3 and a loss by 0-1 --- disaster all around. Gooch screwed up in two of the close games in which Standard Liege had a chance of winning. He sabotaged his club with his poor play. There is NOTHING that would cause a top Euro club team to become interested in such a player as a starter. Sure, he may still start for the US MNT at the moment. That is certainly a quite worrisome sign. I hope that he figures out a stronger league where he can work on his many faults. Better yet, I hope that some other center back will pressure and perhaps replace Onyewu in the starting lineup for US MNT. The old posts breathlessly asserting that Gooch would soon be starting alongside of Terry at Chelsea or for Barcelona or for Real Madrid were clearly delusional. There are only a few days/weeks left in the summer transfer window. Where will Gooch wind up? When will be doing great things consisently in club play against tough opponents that give even a faint glimmer of his potential?
My point is that based on proven facts, Onyewu has done nothing in club play and national team play in important games outside of his meaningless dominance of the weak Jupiler League. World Cup 2006? Not so great ---> USA tied with Iran at #25/#26 with 0-2-1 2-6. Newcastle? Made the key error in the game that led to the coach getting fired. Sometimes made Bramble look good by comparison. Fired the first day that Allardyce took over the team. Champions League and UEFA Cup? Big bonehead plays in the two games that Standard Liege had a chance of winning (Steaua and Zenit). Defensive captain for a team that allowed 10 goals in 5 games against Steaua, Zenit, and Celta Vigo. Note: Onyewu's petulant two yellow cards ---> red cards in a 9 minute span against Zenit (he clearly stomped on a fellow in front of the ref) last year means that Onyewu will NOT play in the first game against Liverpool at home. Onyewu may play only one Champions League game this year --- versus Liverpool at Anfield. Good luck, Gooch! Why are Gooch and a few selected other players subjects of these irrational, delusional posts exclaiming that he is the best defender since <fill in blank>? I want Gooch to earn/develop much better skills --- perhaps in Germany. He may become an adequate center back for the US MNT for World Cup 2010. Great! At the moment he is not adequate. I am not sure that he is educable here. He doesn't come up big in big, important games. On the contrary, he often bollixes things up to produce depressing results in such a reliable way.
I don't think there are all that many others, actually. Statman has been on a personal crusade against the guy ever since his loan spell at Newcastle. I don't remember anybody else offhand. Bruce S, maybe?
So he had two bad games in CL/UEFA Cup and had an arguable WC in which he shut down Luca Toni for our best result since Korea/Japan, got hosed with a bad call against Ghana, and had a sub-par Czech game. You can say that about pretty much anyone.
ok folks... when someone is so blindly one-sided they are obviously not willing to debate... its pointless to appeal to logic. Just let it go... dont bother trying to explain... it wont be heard anyway...
The problem with Onyewu once again has more to do with people's expectations about the US and its players. Onyewu is the best and most accomplished central defender the US has produced.Don't even kid yourself otherwise.In the context of the world game ,as defined by Euro club play at its pinnacle,that doesn't mean as much as we think it does and/or want it to. Onyewu's weaknesses at the highest level were exposed in 2006 and 2007.There is certainly reason to hope for improvement in such areas as reading the attack,maintaining the offside line, and defending against strikers looking to turn him ,while continuing to ecome a more vocal leader in defense. With that improvement,and assuming no diminishment of his obvious physical attributes,we can still look for Gooch to be a starting quality defender for both the US and ,possibly down the road, a Top 4 league side.
Statman does have a point Onyewu isn't that good, he really isn't. Is he really that much better than what else the USA have to offer? Out of the regular back four there's one player who stands out as being a lot better than the rest and that's not Onyewu, it's Cherundolo. He could play in a one of the big four leagues quite soon if he polished his play, but but I've never seen anything in his play to suggest that he would be any use to clubs like Chelsea, Juventus, Barcleona, Inter, etc, who some fans seem to bizarrely believe that he may play for one day.
Respectfully, your opinion isn't even that well-supported, much less the mantra you are trying to force down everyone's throats. Unless you really admire the level of the Belgium whateverthefreak League that much, it is hard to argue that Gooch has acoomplished as much as Eddie Pope who was a standout for the USMNT at two World Cups and, in my opinion, whose club accomplishments with DC United are in the same general ball park as Gooch's exploits with Standard Liege.
Pope could have been.He certainly has an impressive National team resume,although his play dropped off badly after 2004(due to injury and getting older),and he was an absolute liability by 2006. I have to hold not going to a G14 (which he could have) side against his case as our best ever ,though.For example,put Onyewu in MLS and how many Best XIs does he make?As many as Pope,I reckon. As much as any of us would wish otherwise,Champions League and Big 4 play is the measuring stick of any professional soccer talent.Eddie never went there.I don't mean that as a criticism-it just makes judging his worth as a player more difficult. Is that my opinion?Yes,of course.I would be interested in hearing a different one so I could examine it.