agreed...the refereeing doenst keep you winless in ALL COMPETITION for two months. carver and the players need to look elsewhere for answers and not the refs, crowd, or media.. any takers??
hahaa ya.. and did you read the part in the papers about how brenan said the crowd were applauding because "they (the crowd) knew that we had given it our all and been let down by the refs????" come on jim..no one was applauding your performance after the game. maybe Canada can beat Jamaica and give us a win at BMO for the first time in a while.. by the way..im a wiz fan living in TO and i attend about every TO game..you could say they are my second team
go figure. the only person who agrees with me about guevara making a terrible decision is not even a reds supporter as for brennan, i certainly don't blame that statement (though i didn't read it) when the media and carver give the team a free ride and likewise with the media towards carver. that's attention even the maple quafs would be envious of.
So what the Hell do you want to hear that we don't already know guys? The coaching staff has been suspect at best and there seems to be a lack of real direction coming forth from them. There seems to be no clear, effective, strategies that are coming forth and it is showing in our performance. The constant changes in our lineup pose major difficulties in using just 1 main game plan from a coaching perspective and also on a personal level on the pitch! Different players are trained in different areas and trying to get them to be effective in a role outside their natural one is difficult at best. Always having to play with different players with a different strategy can be tiresome and perhaps even confusing! The job of effectively coaching a team that seems to have a never ending revolving door is VERY DIFFICULT I can assure you! The boys on the field do not seem to be "ALL TOGETHER" at times and when this occurs it is very costly for us! I could go on and on if you like but I think most of us can see what is happening out there. The real issue is that there is a major LACK OF CONFIDENCE right now and we have to work our way out of it. Harping on every tiny little mistake is what breeds that same lack of confidence. To rebuild confidence you must look at the flaws and address them appropriately but you also have to focus on the aspects of the game in which you played well. Negativity breeds negative results. What does the team need you ask(aside from confidence)? Glad you asked. What they really need to do is go out there and have fun again. Sure they get paid but as a fan when they have fun(and I don't mean goofing around) I too have fun! They seem far too serious and to me it is affecting their play! Hit the pitch, let loose and have fun with your teammates and good things will come. We know what they are capable of and so do they. Still doesn't mean that I can give the Refs a pass! That is the shit that aides in keeping our boys down. Hard to focus on game plans and strategy when you feel defeated on every level! Perhaps this game is what it will take for our guys to get back on track.....and perhaps not. Till then CUT THIS TEAM SOME SLACK ALREADY! We will get our groove back and hopefully it won't be too late but if it is I can assure you it will not be the end of the world!
I agree that Guevara needs to take the brunt of the blame for the loss. Retaliation is never smart, no matter how hard done by you are leading up to it. The whining about refs is starting to get annoying as well. I almost feel like I'm following Serie A or the Italian national team the way TFC fans act after each bad call. We should thank the ref for the Velez sending off though. That's one game where we won't have to have him in the line up. Thank god for that.
hahahaha Lack of Confidence???? Or a lack of Quality??? i think you meant quality this is a very bad team
Well then I guess you should pack up and start cheering on the Mighty Wizards again because if you think the quality of our players is that poor then you would be delusional to think we could get any better. I get what you have been trying to say in this thread now. We need a whole new team and and whole new coaching staff! To do that my friend you will need to RUB A LAMP and pray a genie pops out. Quit trying to pretend that you support this team when clearly you do not!
Nobody here is giving Guevara a get out of jail free card. I've said it and most others have said it. He should not have committed that act! I agree with most of your post but you've missed us criticizing Amado for what he did. He has been heavily criticized!
!!!!! I couln't disagree more with you... I think that reff got off easy. Yes, I think they should be critisized... we are not watching a bunch of teenagers playing on a weekday afternoon... It is professional soccer. How do you expect the reffering to improve if fans tolerate incompetence of that level... In the profesional world if you don't do your job well, you loose your job, that applys to reffs.... It seemed to me that reff was biased throughout the game, it became obvious at the end. I don't know what kind of soccer you are used to watching but usually elbows are not used in the game... "big boys" soccer games in most profesional leagues have to adhere to rules which include: "don't elbow your fellow player!!!!"... it must be in the books somewhere. I think some people are being way to hard on Guevara... If us fans, during a game, feel fustrated with bad calls and things not clicking with our team, imagine how you would feel if you were playing, running, giving 100% and bastard makes a stupid call (like the first yellow card to velez)... then imagine you gave the ball to your forward 10 times and he looses it 10 times (cunny)... now you are even more pissed and frustrated... another bad call... another pass wasted... another bad call... budy gives you two elbows!!!! .... i know that if it was me i would have pushed/punched him back.... That ref got off easy... I was watching the game on TV and i was expecting someone, out 20k fans, to run into the field and drop that f...er... That was just wishfull thinking.... Refs like that should be critisized... yes... Refs like that ruin the game... This game was already painfull to watch, the ref made it 10 times worse... If the league wants to gain more popularity they need to do something about some of the refs, maybe bring some refs from abroad... maybe the local refs would learn something from them...
obviously youve never played soccer at a high level. Because if you had..you would realize that no one plays by the rules. have you ever watched what goes on during a corner kick??? guys are pushing, shoving, stepping on feet, ripping jerseys, and punching. what the ref doesnt see the ref doesnt call..and even if the ref does see it he lets it go on corners and stuff where everyone is doing it. im not saying the ref didnt make bad calls because i thought the red on velez could have been avoided if he would of made the call just before it. however, to say the ref altered the game through bad calls is just stupid. did guevara probably get pushed, shoved, or elbowed first-PROBABLY...simply because it happens throughout the game. Watch an international game with mexico and the US..the stuff they do is basically assault..but the ref lets it go. but when guevara clearly elbows a man in the face as the ref is looking at the play what should have been done??? and big boy soccer just means that these guys are men and everyones trying to get a leg up..people punch, kick, pull, and grab..its the dumb players that get caught. the players lost the points this time!!!
torontofc1976... should we blame the refs for the previous 2 months of losses in all competition and scoring what....2 goals?!?!?!? the ref issue has got to go..its tiring
Nobody here is saying Guevara's actions were warranted. Nobody here is saying he should be given a pass. He did what he did and will probably miss two or three games as a result and that is just punishment. I think that in case, what is frustrating us is that the Assistant was clearly giving input to the official regarding what was going on previous to the final blow by Guevara and he ignored him. The fact that the players witnessed and actually heard the interplay between the two officials is what is upsetting them and the supporters. The correct call, with the assistant's input would have been a red card to Guevara for the "final act", some sort of card (probably yellow) to Richetti and free kick outside the box to Toronto as Richetti committed the first foul. If he makes the correct call, we are still down a man (unless he decides a red to Richetti was warranted as well) but there is no penalty. Obviously his incorrect call changed the course of the game. To say it doesn't is ignoring the obvious. There is nothing stupid at all about someone making that statement. What you say about the crap that takes place on the field is totally true and we all witness it every game. The clutch and grab in the box on a corner is farcical but it is tacitly being approved of by the officials via their non-calls. Of course, that is what makes the Brennan v Montreal penalty all the more frustrating as it was an obvious dive by Jeff Clarke but that's another story for another thread.
I don't mean to get in the middle of your discussion but I think the point he is trying to make is that TFC's play for 80 minutes before the Guevara red card is more important than bad officiating. Up until the 80th minute TFC were well on their way to dropping 2 points unneccesarily. After the 80th minute they dropped the third point AND let their frustration get the better of them. That lack of composure now cost TFC two starters for the next game and probably longer in Guevara's case. These are things that TFC can't afford if they're going to start playing better. I think we as fans (or supporters, or whatever people want to call it) should be more upset with TFC's lack of effort, finish and determination over the last 2 months. Who cares about the officiating in one game. We got bigger fish to fry.
I couldn't have written that better myself! Well - other than I wouldn't necessarily criticise some of the players effort as I think *most* of the team really are trying their hardest - rather I would criticise the lack of quality (which couldn't be improved no matter how some of the players try...).
A second point, and those of you familiar with hockey (although applicable to soccer) know this point, is that it's ALWAYS the retaliator that gets whistled because the refs aren't looking when the initiator takes the first whack. The pro's know this but always lose their cool in the heat of the moment. Getting whacked in the face will do that to you. Being pro's they should get their revenge cold, but that's a hard thing to do.
Guevara got what he deserved. That was not the point of this thread's creation! Now........I am sick to death of all this horse shit being spewed about how the team lacks effort, determination, quality......blah ********ing blah! If you really think that they are out there doing nothing, not trying, playing without heart and throwing games intentionally I suggest you sell your seats or stop watching. If anything they are trying to play too hard, too clinical and are putting too much pressure on themselves(with the exception of 1 or 2 games). They are tense before they even hit the pitch! You see this stuff all the time in professional sport(actually at any level). A team plays well and the playoffs look to be in sight. Team slumps and only climbs out when it's too late only to play some of the best damn soccer(hockey...whatever) that they've played all season. If anything this team is playing like a team defeated! They are in a rut! Any of you know what that's like? You know when you can't get your ass away from your computer when you know you should be working out(put your own spin on it so that it applies to your lives as I absolutely know that it does)! Sometimes they last a long time and sometimes not so long, but TFC right now is in a rut and all our bitching and moaning isn't going to help them get out of it! Knowing what I do know about some of our players, they are harder on themselves than anyone so what the Hell is the point of continually running them down? I suggest to all those who want MLSE to sign a new team because of all this so called lack of talent and desire to piss off and find yourself a winning team to cheer for! Surely it will be more satisfying.......but you won't have anything to bitch about! For those of you who want to help our boys.......cheer twice as loud next game. I know I will be!
i disagree. when people keep bringing up the refs that's when IMO the real concerning issue/S, guevara's foolishness and our winless slide becomes overshadowed by a relatively easy target for us to pin all our shortcomings on and you know what that is. what narduch nicely articulated. when at the end of the day all the ref did was his job by punishing a player for a bonehead and selfish decision, accordingly. did he miss ricchetti's elbows, absolutly. but that's football and that's the way it's been going lately.
You are all probably aware of this, but Guevara has always had a reputation for doing stuff like this. He's a hothead, kind of like Blanco divided by 1000 (stupid Blanco). I'm not saying that the whole situation wasn't a complete crapfest and you guys got screwed, but with Amado, something like this is bound to happen. That's the one game this year he'll blow for you, as compared to the 5 or 6 he'll change the outcome positively. That's what players like him do.
i'm not a huge velez backer either but the ref could've been a little more sympathetic after he just issued a red on guevara. that red was warranted. the velez red was nothing more than the ref wanting to be the show and i can't stand refs like that tbh. especially after i'm sure he was made aware that he missed the elbow on guevara before the penalty.
ummm for everyone who keeps saying that the assistant should have seen the play and told the ref to give a red to both players....what do you think he was watching??????????????????? two guys running next to each other at midfield or the ball that was played over the top to kenny cooper who was nearly offside?? usually the assistant is watching the offsides line when a play is developing..not focusing on two guys running up the field... basically, the whole arguement that the assistant should have called both for a red card is stupid. the ref probably went over to talk to the assistant to see what he saw and the assistant probably said i was watching the play/ offsides line. uhh ya..assistants usually watch the line when the ball is about to be played to a player in a close to offsides position. UNDERSTAND!!!
As far as the Velez second yellow is concerned, you can look at it from both sides of the equation. The ref could have cut Velez some slack considering the heat of the moment and the fact that he already had a yellow. On the other hand, Velez has to show more composure in that situation since he knows that he already has a yellow and his team is already down a man and down a goal in stoppage time. He also might have used one of the magic words that automatically cause an official to reach for his pocket. In my opinion, it was a stupid/selfish move to confront the ref given the circumstances. As far as Guevara is concerned, TFC fans are just going to have to get used to the fact that Guevara has a long history of this kind of behavior. He can be absolutely brilliant at times. He will score an occasional hat trick. He will win a game with an incredible individual effort and an upper 90 finish. However, these moments are in stark contrast to incidents similar to the one that occurred on Sunday. He has worn out his welcome in multiple cities in several countries. He starts out on his best behavior, but eventually the bad moments outweigh the good and he moves on or is moved on to another team and the cycle repeats.
I understand that. But my argument is that the Ref *should* have consulted the linesman before making any decision at all regarding ANY type of card colour! If, after consulting the linesman the ref still decides to give the red to Guevara, then at least he's had the opportunity to get another point of view or perspective.