I think it was kind of childish for Kreis to bitch about the refs. MLS refs suck, but we hope they aren't on the take. Too bad we can't coax old Gianluigi Collina from Italy to come over and become our league Chief referee and help the rest of the bunch make calls a bit more consistent. Actually, for once, I would like to hear the coach at the postgame show when asked about the officiating say something along the lines of "I do not want to besmersch the reputation of MLS referees, so I will only say this. I think that the refs made some bad calls which went against us, but they probably also made some bad calls that went for us. That's just the way that the soccer ball bounces so continuing to whine and moan about the officiating is just a diversion from winning. Next question."
You can change the rules and not change the spirit of the game. Make the rule based on the 'body' of the player and you have the same essential rule, yet have adapted it to work with a reasonable to set up technology.
No matter how good, how well trained the refs MLS gets, offside will continue to be called in error around the world. As it is now. Facts are facts. And one fact is this: Humans are physiologically incapable of making correct judgments about offside in a sufficient number of close call situations as to damage the game, particularly in the eyes of Americans who are raised on instant replay. Instant replay is not the answer. Real-time technology that links player locations with ball locations is possible within a decade, sooner if FIFA decides that it wants it. If FIFA can sanction Field Turf for soccer, it can decide to sanction technology to improve the decisions of referees on the field.
My take on technology in officiating is that there are two types of rules. Some rules are cut and dry, with absolutely no judgment necessary. Either the ball is over the line or it isn't. Either the player is offside or he isn't (although some situations do involve some judgment of offsides regarding "involvement in the play"). The last player to touch the ball was on one team or the other. There is no middle ground, no room for a referee's judgment to come into play. If the referee makes the wrong decision it is due to failure of his cognitive ability to see or perceive what has happened, not an error in judgment. I see no reason why technology shouldn't be explored to compensate for the fact that referees cannot make these calls perfectly simply because they are human beings. Tennis has very effectively incorporated technology for these kinds of decisions (which are really the only kinds of decisions in tennis). Simply put, if technology can do this better and is within reasonable cost, it only stands to improve the game. Where technology can potentially hurt the game is if it is somehow applied to alter the way in which referees make evaluative judgments, the other type of rule. The line between a foul and not a foul is extraordinarily complex and inconsistent, with every situation being just a little different. Using something like instant replay to allow a referee to reconsider a decision made on the field in the moment, such as the "intent" of a handball or the severity of a challenge, I think is not a good thing at this point in time. On another note though, I wouldn't mind seeing some responsibilities taken from the center referee, such as timekeeping. I don't see why the fourth official shouldn't be keeping time, including blowing the final whistle. Isn't that just an extra responsibility and decision that the center ref has to make which can make things a little more complicated for him? It probably wouldn't make a huge difference to let the center not worry about time, but it seems reasonable that even a little help is worth it and it may be more helpful to inexperienced officials to give them one less thing to think about.
There was immediate complaint on the field by RSL players. The bench also complained to the 4th. And more...
I dont know what axe you guys have to grind UtBalance, but don't drag me in to it. Crap like this stops more people from wanting to post things here. Anyway good luck reinventing the game
I liked during the radio show today how Kreis commented that his wife may not get a mother's day present because of the impending fine from MLS. It was funny to hear Riley try to correct Kreis by explaining to him that he should not get a father's day present while rest assured Mrs. Kreis will get her a present. Gaffe by the gaffer. Would not be at all surprise to notice the whistle will be swallowed against RSL this week, a red card issued against RSL, and a note with the following: Dear Mr. Kreis, We do not think we are half as bad as you are as a coach. Shut up. Love, USSF Referees The joys of a novice coach.
I would like to chime in here - Kreis comments are just plain stupid and embarrasing (whether he is correct in his assertions or not). That's all I have to say....
"A blatantly blown offside call in a 2-2 tie with the Galaxy last Saturday that cost Real Salt Lake a goal triggered a riposte from Coach Jason Kreis regarding officiating decisions that had gone against his team." Blatantly blown? Yes, the AR was a few yards off the line of the second last defender but the Deuchar was very close to that line. The video of the play which purportedly shows without a doubt that Deuchar was onside has a far higher degree of parallax than that suffered by the AR. And because the view is from the opposite side of the field, it has the opposite effect. Even if you stop the video at the moment the ball was kicked, Deuchar either even or onside by only a couple of inches. In real time it would be easy to conclude that Deuchar was offside. To say this was a blatantly blown call is unreasonable. "Wingert could also have been sent off for deliberately trying to prevent a scoring opportunity." No. The rule is denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity (whether deliberate or not), and he clearly did not do that. The crux of this play is who was called for the foul. Was it Wingert, who obviously held Emilio but maybe not enough to be considered more than trifling, or was it Talley, who circumstantially looked guilty of a foul probably actually played the ball cleanly. Or was a "combination foul" called, where independently no foul would have been called but taken together, the combined play of the defense was considered egregious enough to merit a foul call. (And no, I don't want to get into a debate about the merits of such a foul call.) In the latter two cases, a PK is warranted.
Podcasts shed light on close calls; VW joins MLS U.S. Soccer, the sport's governing body in the USA and, therefore, soccer referees' ultimate boss, has launched a weekly audio podcast with a transcript highlighting several crucial decisions that referees got right … or wrong. That podcast will soon be video, as will a similar MLS podcast in development.
This is one of the annoying things on forums. I think that RSL has gotten the shaft much more often by the ref's than other team, especially at home. I am a huge rsl fan though, so of course I think this way. I don't think coming out in the press was the best way but when has Kries ever done things the best way?
Sorry DadOf6, but the ref got this one wrong. It was CLEARLY a dangerous play call. There was not contact of any sort. The proper call was #2 Indirect Free Kick.
Jason is floundering and doesn't seem to have an answer to what is ailing the club and that is how to close out games. I've been a season ticket owner since the beginning and what is happening this year is no different than the previous years. Blame it on bad luck all you want, but there is something embedded in this club that causes it to lose in ridiculous ways. On the Beckham FK a real RSL fan will look at it as the center ref taking an opportunity to provide Becks a great opportunity on goal. Let's face it, the league does better when it's "stars" are successful. Giving Beckham an opportunity like this was a perfect setting for him and the league. RSL gets hammered and chopped in front of the LA goal, but no calls were made. Findley gets taken down from behind for a clear PK earlier this year and actually gets a yellow card. All the other calls noted on this thread, it goes on and on with this team. The fact is we have 3 strikes against us-- a losers mentality, a poor record, and no marketable star. Without anyone to command a referee's whistle in their favor we don't get any love on judgement calls. We've revamped the team so many times the players have to wonder what the support is from the FO for their efforts. Unless we can somehow turn losses into wins on our own I don't think RSL commands any respect from officials to make calls in their favor. We have to create our own breaks, but we just can't do it right now and that's on JK to change.
Two points: The referee did not signal an indirect free kick so a statement that he called PIADM has no support. PIADM can be called even if there is contact and contact is not required for a foul to be called. PAIDM: At the professional level a player must pretty much abandon a challenge to avoid being injured or injuring the other player for PIADM to be called. If the played abandons the challenge and there is contact but the contact would not normally be called as a foul PIADM can still be called. "Non-conatct" fouls You see, there is gray area between PAIDM and "attemps to" and "jumping at" fouls. It's not clear at all. What is clear is that the referee signalled a direct free kick and did not signal an indirect free kick.
I've been consistently unimpressed by Coach Kreis' attitude and this does nothing to change my perception of him. In my mind the bottom line is that good teams put themselves in a position to not have calls going against them (warranted or not) affect weather or not they win the game. I think it's very likely that RSL has already complained to the league about this stuff non-publicly - why wouldn't they? But either way, it does not make it a good idea for Coach Kreis to slam the officials in the media since it won't do any good. At this point, as a fan and season ticket holder, I'm willing to give him a few more games before I start calling for his head. Especially since it's unclear if there's a better candidate out there, available, and willing to take that job right now. Kreis - shut up about this stuff and play on...
totally agree! if the call was really inappropriate, why no one on the field complaint about the goal?? of course all of the RSL players and their coaches (including Kreis) know what is wrong and what is right on the field. but no..there's no argument! and Kreis complaint only came days after the game, and he was alone! and for the other poster who said that Kenny himself said at the post-game interview that his first goal (2nd RSL goal) was actually offside..than the offside call for his 2nd only justifed the non-call on the first! and this is a common incident in football everywhere, even in EPL, Europe and the WC! if you really watching, you'll see that the refs always made another call/non-call to the team to justify/compensate his fault of giving call/non-call he made earlier to the other team. however, i agree that most refs in MLS needs better education on their job.
You must have missed this post... And if anyone who was at RES would know this, it's Poqui. I'm curious as to whether either of these issues (offside call or indirect kick issue) will make the "Lessons learned" this week. Does anyone know when this usually gets posted? It doesn't appear to be there yet.
I just can't keep quiet... I watched the Real Madrid v Barcelona game yesterday on Gol-TV and I wanted to observe the referees and how they did. I figured for this game only the best of Spain would step on the field wearing yellow. I have to be honest with you and I saw just as many missed calls and poor calls in that game as any MLS game. The difference being that the players didn't complain, they just accepted the fact that the human eye is imperfect and has severe limitations and played on. One of the fouls that led to one of the teams scoring (I don't want to spoil it if you TIVO'd it) was clearly not a foul, not even close to being a foul but they just played on, allowed the kick and accepted the goal. CONCLUSION: We have referees in the MLS that match the talent on the pitch. And judging by the fact that many of them are FIFA certified and do international matches shows that they are not nearly as bad as we make them out to be. It's just amazing how when you are losing points on the pitch we always look for the scapegoat and the guys in yellow are an easy target. Let's not leave the fate of the game on the hands of the refs and just score more points than the other team.
Watch the replay, not the highlights. It certainly appears he has his hand up signaling an indirect free kick until he goes to move the wall back. The hand never comes up again.