I was very disappointed to hear lew say on CSNBA interview that stadium size could be as low as 15k. I swear i will never attend a single game there if it is. I was already pissed at 20k. Stop shafting us for every dollar we have please Lew. You also said you didn't know yet if it was a good business opportunity, thats a real disappointment. More and more tyou are coming across as a hawker, just like the many vendors planted in the stadium, you want our dollars but could give a shit about our experience. Go sign a few quality players please and build us a stadium with enough seats to accomodate the fans that will show up. The current plan seems like ya wanna just gouge us.
yeah seriously what the hell was that about. 15k. should be shooting to fill a 30k in the next many years. I mean honestly if they don't have confidence that they can grow why are thy in the business. get out market the team and the players. it can work if you do it.
If you have comcast on demand it should be on there, it was in the half time interview. Lew was asked if 18k stadium and replied 15-18k. I was already pissed about 18k, but if its 15k forget it.
Wolff seems to like the idea of reduced expectations. Remember, he once used 12,000 seats when discussing the stadium. If there was any evidence that MLS has the ability to produce a product that will justify the demand for 30,000, then I would like to see a facility with that number. I don't think MLS (and this is about MLS) has the ability to consistently fill anything larger than 15,000 to 20,000 seats every week. What gets lost in all of this is that the league is only as viable as it's worst location. When under achieving teams (crowd-wise) start averaging 20,000 + plus crowds, larger stadiums might be in order. As far as the franchise being a good business opportunity, we really won't know about that for a few years. Make no mistake, Wolff is not a "sugar daddy".....if this turns into a significant money loser, he will drop it like a hot potato.
When he first said that during the interview I was surprised. But after some thought, 15k sounds a little small, but not outrageously so. 18-20 sounds about right. If the stadium is designed properly to eliminate some of the Buck Shaw problems like crowding and walkways, I think building the stadium to fit the expected crowds makes sense -- we want the stadium to look full. Other than Galaxy games a 25-30k stadium is still going to look 1/2 empty (like PHP or The Dick usually do). As for ticket prices, I don't think it'll make a difference if the stadium is 15, 20, 25k. Their going to be expensive, start saving now. Now, that's for Earthquakes games. The one legit, concern about size is that if it's too small we'll have a hard time attracting international friendlies/qualifiers. Maybe his plan is to try to attract those kinds of matches to his new baseball digs?
I tend to agree that 15K seems a bit small. On the other hand, when 15K are there, the place needs to look full. That can be achieved with a 20K stadium, if it is built correctly. This facility is more about MLS and entertainment than it is about international soccer. Stanford is the place for internationals of any consequence (and, if they ever build it, the new 49'er stadium in Santa Clara). I just don't see any road to justifying a large soccer stadium in San Jose, considering what's available nearby. I doubt that Wolff has much interest in hosting big national team games in his facilities.
The Fremont baseball park is planned to be only 30,000 to 34,000 - the smallest field in Major League Baseball. The Buffalo Bisons, a AAA minor league baseball teams plays in a stadium with the capacity of 18,025, with room for another 125 to stand. A MLB stadium seating only 30,000? How many Oakland A's fans are going to be left on the outside of the stadium? The same is going to go for Earthquakes fans. Many, many long-time Earthquakes fans are going to be priced out of the market and the team is going to be a snobbish exclusive club with a limited fan base. For those of you who keep blaming SJSU for the failed deal maker...don't you realize that SJSU kept the demand for 30,000 seats? That is starting to sound like the deal breaker for that whole agreement. I wonder how much season tickets will run in a 15,000 seat stadium whe the team finally gets settled?
I agree. If someone is talking about growing support for the game, why build a stadium with such a low audience capacity? Lew should be aiming at well over 20,000. If the Earthquakes fan population remains at 12,000 then keep the stadium small, but that sounds like it comes from someone who is not talking about potential future expansion.
I love what Lew's done in bringing back the team but i'm starting to agree. Tickets are already overpriced to go to Buck Shaw and 15,000 seats in a new stadium seems cynical.
An excellent point. If the idea is to create demand by producing more sellouts, I would hope there would be a plan to expand once those seats are regularly filled. I hate to say it, but since we know that is the determining factor for Wolfe in stadium capacity, this does seem consistent with the plane. 20k would be hard to fill on a regular basis, but 15k is no too far off of our 2005 average. Very doable. Once this is achieved they can then make a huge deal about demand and the need to expand the stadium.
He also suggested the plan might be to play big games at the new 49'ers stadium next door, depending on how much rent they charge us. ********. That. If he's got the vision thing, he's got a different vision from me, and from SSV I think. SSV inherited the dream we've had since World Cup '94 (at least) of a true world class home for soccer in the Bay Area.
Given our average was close to 15K before the team left I think adding another couple more thousand to that with the right marketing and player signings should be easy to achieve. I think it is a little short-sighted to shoot for only 15K. We will be in a new stadium! We will make quality signings to add to the quality that this team already has! We will have better marketing! And if you keep ticket prices reasonable than 20K will be very doable!
That is an empty statement, IMO, even if it does have a nice ring to it for chicken little types like me. I fret more than the next fan about a few thousand fans here or there, and the underdogs of the MLS pack, but we've got major investment groups buying into MLS one after another, offering stadiums and whatnot. The excitement behind those investments has little to do with Columbus' attendances, and very much to do with the happenings of HDC and Toyota Park. MLS can present a very compelling story to potential investors nowadays.
Yes, to a certain extent. However, I hate to see stadium like HDC where one end of the stadium is empty (grass) which would allow for expansion. Sorry, I have low expectations for the new stadium. 15k is not much large than the current Buck Shaw stadium and I don't expect the stadium to be "special". Lew will put out a nice product, but I wouldn't expect him to go beyond his business model. Any construction costs or other "costs" will directly effect the stadium and the product. He won't cover them (at least long term). I applaud him for bringing back the team and putting a good product in place for the first season. Still, a lot of work needs to be done from a long term perspective...
You mention the Buffalo Bisons having a 18K facility. The question I would ask is what is their average attendance? As far as MLB is concerned, the question is what is the average attendance league wide and also what is the average attendance of the A's? The size of the facility is only important if the team is filling it consistently. San Jose State's insistence on the 30K number has far more to do with their struggle to remain in the top division than because they need the seats. MLS is a long way from needing teams to play in 30K stadiums....they may never get to that point. In the US, the NFL is the only pro league that consistently fills it's stadiums, which is ironic, because the NFL doesn't need any fans in the stadiums in order to be profitable. If soccer can ever attract real TV money, the situation for the sport will change dramatically. In the meantime, MLS is a 15K to 20K live audience game. The new stadium in San Jose will be obsolete before there will ever be a need for anything substantially larger than 15K or 20K (keep in mind that most stadiums wear out in about 20 years....those that are older than 20 years have usually had extensive ongoing upgrades).
What he said. We drew 20k at the Coliseum and 10k (though not all tix were "full price") at Buck Shaw. That's saying a lot, when you look at the {ahem} effort put into it and our bargain basement team. Folks, Ryan Cochrane is one of our star players.
Your 2005 regular season average was just a shade above 13K - so it seems like Lew has already taken these 2,000 or so fans into consideration. 1996: 17,232 / 17,209 1997: 13,597 / missed playoffs 1998: 13,653 / missed playoffs 1999: 14,959 / missed playoffs 2000: 12,460 / missed playoffs 2001: 9,635 / 13,269 2002: 11,150 / 8,069 2003: 10,465 / 15,127 2004: 13,001 / 8,659 2005: 13,037 / 17,824 All-Time: 13,022 / 13,569 Seems some of you dorks have trouble with facts... That or your little deal with the devil isn't turning out to be the sugardaddy deal that you thought it was...
And it is fine if it designed for the optimal viewing of a soccer game. I watched the Liverpool-Man City game that was played at Anfield yesterday. I know some people don't like seats that go to ground level (or below!) but, with a design like that it brings everyone that much closer to the game. The Quakes ownership has a chance to do something unique with this new stadium. Hopefully it is designed with its primary purpose in mind.
Both are very good numbers. But neither one justify us having some 20k+ stadium. Now if we fill the Coliseum to capacity for the two LA games maybe there would be some justification for a few more seats in the new stadium. But as it stands with our historic numbers and the numbers we're pulling in this year. the numbers they've thrown out (15-20k), seem to make sense. Look at it historically, other than 1996 we've never averaged more than 15k. And our overall average is a mere 13k. Same goes for the A's. Someone mentioned them above, their average crowd is only 22-23k. Why build a stadium bigger than 34k if they're not going to fill it. Same applies to the Quakes. After seeing a full Buck Shaw, I don't even know why we're playing at the Coliseum at all unless we can fill it. A full house is far better than having a few extra seats on the off chance we may want to use them for one or two games.