I know it sounds silly but with Garber's talk about carefully weighing expansion it sounds like there are a lot of hurt soccer fans out there. I think he's right. The league doesn't have enough talent or $ yet to water down the league by expanding above 16 teams right now. We need credibility and quality in the league (depth not width). Here's a thought, and I know this is out of left field and may be like asking Al Qaeda and the US to climb in bed together, but why not restructure the USL into an official MLS Division 1 League. Just a few of the benefits: * Div. 1 teams would be a precursor to become MLS teams if they have the right numbers, etc. - See Seattle Sounders FC * Div. 1 teams would have their own requirements (season tix, stadium size that could be converted to MLS stadium) etc. * Div. 1 teams could be feeder teams to the MLS leaque, keeping players around (see AFL and European NFL league). * Div. 1 teams could play MLS teams at least once as part of the US Open Cup or part of another Championship * People in the US could understand how the Div. 1 teams fit in and would have pride in watching them grow and maybe come into the big league. Create a more cohesive soccer country. * Easier to add teams to Div. 1 as the requirements and demands would be less. * Div. 1 would be a part of a concerted plan to blanket the US with teams to have soccer fans from all around embrace the league(s). Look at the Map and where all the teams are, their are some pretty big holes. * Eliminate the us vs them mindset. * Easier for foreign entities to latch on to US teams and vice versa looking for talent in the US Come on, can't we all just get along and do what's right for US Soccer!!
If soccer can sell out SSSs, and become the type of thing that every city can do well with, promotion and relegation would be the answer with the USL. I'm saying if an 18 team isn't enough, and there's enough interest for a 96-team league with promotion and relegation, then it's well worth it.
I like the idea but relegation will not happen in North America for soccer. There are other ideas. MLS is the NAPL (NA Premiere League) and USL-1 is the development league. For this to work the USL-1 needs to allow more substitutions (like 8 or 10 in total). Same "once out you can't come back in" subs but a lot more of them so most players will get more game time experience. During CONCACAF, Lamar Hunt and Voyaguers Cup inter league competitions the USL-1 would revert to normal sub rules. MLS would be in all markets with 3+ million in the area and USL-1/2 would fill in the rest. The 2 leagues definately need to work together from here on out or we won't get the development of soccer in NA we need.
There is no way relegation is going to happen on an annual basis. What I was talking about is saying that, "Cleveland, we can't give you a MLS team now but we can give you a Div. 1 team. If you can get your market to average x fans with season ticket holders for a period of three years running and you pay a $ x expansion fee with a plan to put in a SSS that holds 15-20K then you can move up to MLS and be the 18th team. That way you have 5-7 teams working their asses off to come into the league and the ones who do it right get in instead of hoping that you picked the right one and letting politics and tv markets solely drive things.
Screww You,i Dont Want To Support A Club That Is A Feeder For No Bull Shit Club In Another League, No * Ubs No New Bull Rule, Pdl Is A Development League, Usl 1 Is A Div 2, Stop With The Bull Crap Already.
intergalactic champion's league fwiw MLS is taking a step back but that doesn't mean there won't be more expansion, and it doesn't necessarily mean it will be years and years away either. They've only just formed the expansion committee after all.
Nice to see such well thought out and eloquently phrased critiques! The big problem for the USL-1 is that they have 11 teams and have lost Seattle, they will lose Montreal, Vancouver, Atlanta, Portland, Miami and Puerto Rico if any of those can get an MLS franchise they will. Austin has joined but what do they do for the future? The USL needs to do something and the MLS needs a lower division for development or North America will not have the development system to feed it players. Allowing more subs is not a BS rule. Knowing there might be an injury do many coaches use all their subs in every game? No. You have to keep 1 to be safe and some times it is late in a game that you make the last sub. Give them extra subs so they can give more playing time to more players. PS. With close to 4 million Puerto Rico would be my first choice for the next expansion if they can get and ownership group and the other items lined up. It is such a natural fit for the MLS at this point I'm surprised it isn't higher up on everyone's lists of potential candidates.
USL want 16 teams by 2010... Omaha (NE), Tulsa (OK), San Antonio (TX), Tampa (FL), Phoenix (AZ), Boise (ID), Oklahoma City (OK), Albuquerque (NM), Memphis (TN), and Birmingham (AL)
Puerto Rico has a median income of around $22,000 dollars per year. That is about half of what the poorest states have, and only a third of the national average.
> Puerto Rico has a median income of around $22,000 dollars per year. That is about half of what the poorest states have, and only a third of the national average. Yes it is much less wealthy than the rest but so is most of Mexico. Soccer is the game in Latin America and I think MLS would have a good result in Puerto Rico. I'm not trying to minimize the problems. Like I said a wealthy owner with a good plan and there is potential. > USL want 16 teams by 2010...Omaha (NE), Tulsa (OK), San Antonio (TX), Tampa (FL), Phoenix (AZ), Boise (ID), Oklahoma City (OK), Albuquerque (NM), Memphis (TN), and Birmingham (AL) Wanting and getting are 2 different things. I really want to see the USL-1 continue and grow. It is much more affordable and some of the teams are very good. Most of the growth in is USL-2/PDL which is understandable. They are even less expensive (entry and travel).
Puerto Rico's sport is baseball. I think the phrase "Latin America" gets thrown around a little too loosely. I'm not saying they wouldn't support a MLS team, they do well in USL. It's just more difficult to do anything in a poorer area.
Correction Puerto Rico's sport was baseball, people have just lost interest and have moved one to more fast pace sports, like basketball, volleyball and yes, futbol. I think they avg 3,500 for the basketball league. Very good for local league standart, Islanders FC avg 5k. The baseball league died last years do to progressively low attendance, I think their avg was something like 500 per game, due to bad managing and coupled with sub par performes on the field, ever since the MLB quality players stop coming during the winter break. In their glory days any team could bring in a sell out crowd, does days are gone way gone. PR has a lower income but we are a country of consumers, thats why stores that have failed in the US, thrive in PR, one of the reasons CompUSA was able to stay aflot was because of how strong their stores in PR where, another store that has remain opened in PR after mayor closing in the US is Kmart. Dont under estimate the value of the PR consumer, if you put a team that performs well the fans will come. But we are not a big TV market either so that hurts us alot, and theres no mayor investor interested as of right know, but we due have people that could fund a team easily, like the Bacardi family, the Serralle family or the Ferre-Rangel family. Also theres a lack of stadiums in the San Juan metro area, there is a 20,000 stadium being build in the west of the island, but its to far for the majority of the people to go. Unless they would want to play on a expanded JRL (Islanders stadium) you could easily make it from a 12k to a 18k, until a more sutable stadium is built. Also thinking of PR as a single city type place is wrong, the San Juan metro area has around two million, that is where the bulk of your fans will come from, the other 2 million live "on the Island" or the country side, and will not travel to watch a team constantly. That said theres really no mayor interest of making the push to MLS by any of the big players in the PR soccer community right know. Even do recently I have heard people mentioning MLS as a possibility, this talk are few and far between.
I think it would be a good idea, almost like a youth squad...well kind of. Then if they are good enough send them up to MLS?? I think that would be a really good think, cause then unknown players, that are good will also have a better chance at making the pro's. Like the NCAA guys who dont get drafted.
Exactly. Those late bloomers are not shabby players. Some positions like CB and keeper develop much later (23 to 25). The college sports system works for some sports and to a degree soccer but you need more development opportunities for the players.
So you have a situation similar to St Louis, Vancouver, Portland population wise. 2 million in the city and 4 million within TV broadcast range is still a nice market. Thanks for the info on the situation on the island.
Over here across the pond the Super League Europe Rugby League competition is about to implement the "license system" in which rugby clubs that want to be part of the competition have to meet specific criteria: stadium, fans, turnover, location etc. This has caused controversy because the teams in the leagues below (the National League) will not get to be automatically promoted to the Super League if they win the play off, but every 3 years the licenses will be reviewed, and if a team has not been successful in the criteria, then they will be demoted to the National League. Ensuring that the league only has economically viable teams in it. Here's the link to their reasons why, it makes sense:http://www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=375 Their arguments are pretty good, seeing as the average Super League team gets the same gates and less as an MLS team. Maybe a system like that could work between MLS and MLS Div 1?
There is already promotion and relegation within the USL system. However the teams choose not to do it, because of Money reasons
I think it's a past-due idea by a couple of years, but I also think it's doable if MLS flashes money at the USL owners. The main thing that needs to happen is branding. Pretty much every person has at least heard of MLS thanks to David Beckham. They may not know anything more, but that's a start. Ask the average Joe about the USL and they mostly won't have a clue. It really is a very minor league baseball kind of thing. MLS should call Uncle Phil and see how much they can "buy" the USL and all it's divisions for. Get them all organized under MLS so there's a sense of working together instead of competition. After this happens, assign USL-1 teams a relationship with an MLS team. It would basically work like hockey with the AHL. This way you could at least have a pair of teams collaborating on some things. A lot of reserve players choose to go to the USL after about a year (because reserve players get paid crap), so it's not farfetched. After that, don't change much. Get adidas and all the other sponsors in the USL game. See if USL can get more than the one Friday night game on FSC (would 3 or 4 games on ESPN2 hurt?). That's about all.
I think that the only way for this relegation/promotion system to work is if MLS flat out buys the USL. This would allow for a much easier and more smooth transition.
there's alot that has to happen before promotion/relegation would make even a lick of sense in the United States, but you are right, there is absolutely, positively, no way it will ever happen if the USL and MLS are different leagues. Personally, i think MLS should look into absorbing the USL, at least the USL 1 and maybe the USL 2... it would be best for the future of American soccer if the top 2-3 tiers are under 1 organization... set up a system like the AF2 in indoor football, create a venue for smaller markets that have no chance of being in MLs to thrive in, and a place for failed MLS markets to drop down to if absolutely necessary.