Stadium News and Speculation XI: Beltway United? The fat lady hasn't sung yet.

That way they can hide the outcome within all the 'March Madness' coverage.

 

I'm of split mind on this non-news. The cynical side of me notes that the only team that was cut this time is the one that has one of its partners (Doracon) in some legal difficulty, and there were rumors of this team not really being a very well-formed partnership. So, they may have actually taken themselves out of the running.

Having said that, I do think its a good sign that we haven't heard from McFarlane recently. Optimistically, I take that to mean that DC has shown him some good faith in the RFK lease negotiations (making it worthwhile to wait a little while longer before making a decision) and that the possibility of a stadium at Poplar Point (or another suitable location in the District, wherever that might be) is still very much in play.

I don't think we'll be into the 2008 season before there's a team announcement. There's a strong tie between that sight and Frederick Douglass, and his birthday was unofficially celebrated on February 14 (I believe he knew he was born in February, but wasn't sure of the day). If I had to make a guess, look for something around early February, purely for symbolic reasons, with a stadium decision to follow soon afterwards. That would put the opening in the 2012 timeframe if its at PP, maybe 2011 if its at another redevelopment sight in DC or if its an add-on to an existing development (like Greenbelt Metro) in MD.

 

I know there are issues with the Poplar Point site - evironmental and getting the NPS functions relocated. But, I keep hearing that a suburban solution for United would allow United to get a stadium built more quickly. Even if it is an add-on, is there any evidence that this would be true? Do the 'burbs not have layers of planning approval and public comment periods (as well as NIMBY's)? Environmental Impact Statements? Traffic planning? Not to be negative, but I just don't see that 'burbs as that much faster.

Also remember this - MacFarlane is not a developer, he is a finance guy who has the backing of a lot of assets (including the California Public Employees Retirement System). If you are a developer and the credit markets have tightened significantly and you are looking for financing of a project the size of Poplar Point, would you want some backing from Victor MacFarlane?

 

You're absolutely right that there's not that much difference between development timelines in DC versus the suburbs, but Poplar Point isn't exactly apples/apples with most developments. All of the proposals for a stadium at PP (including DCU's) sited the stadium on the NPS grounds, so there's the added delay of getting Sec of Interior approval _and_ moving the NPS HQ and Helipad that will cause the added delay (at least in the estimate from me that you quoted above.) I also think if someone already has a project in the pipeline, many of the issues (EIS, traffic assessment, NIMBY buy-in, etc) have been addressed for something of similar scope, so the effort is more of an update than starting from scratch. For example, an "in-pipeline" mixed use development would already have run most of the environmental work to understand what cleanup/remediation was required for, say, an office building, so the added work is only affected by the possible change in footprint.

Anyway, I still feel that the timeline's a little longer for PP than other places, whether they're in DC or not, simply because of the added requirements of the land transfer. Otherwise, I don't think DC is really that much slower than MD or VA. I do think if MD has a chance to"steal" DCU, they'll steamline things as part of the bargain, and the areas that we've heard are in play (Greenbelt/College Park or New Carrollton/Cheverly) have areas that can be developed without too much NIMBYism, particularly in along the Rt 50/Orange Line corridor (more NIMBY's and local governments to deal with along the Green Line.)

 

I hope United think twice before putting the stadium in a sub-urban location.
I tried to drive from Batlimore to Waldorf on Saturday to catch the launching of a professional Futsal league. It was just ugly, Branch Ave. exit closed, an accident on the Beltway and a plane crash on the Parkway.
There are so many alternate routs into the District and public transport that I'd prefer drive into the city than College Park which is closer to me.
I have pictures of the nightmare.

 

Prince George's County-DC United Stadium-Feasibility Study
Thursday, January 10, 2008 to Tuesday, January 29, 2008

http://www.mdstad.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=117

the stadium would seat 27000, expandable to 31000 with a ground level pub, a conference hotel, conference center, condominium hotel, and an office building

 

Good Link Gary...
Let's see how quickly Md gets the RFP process done in. Deadline is Jan 24th for submissions according to the RFP on the link. Will DC have a developer chosen by then? Will MacFarlane put in a direct proposal to this RFP unlike Poplar Point?
We should know quite a bit more about our situation by the end of the month.

 

LOL! Expandable? Trust me, that will NEVER happen. Perhaps downsize.

 

This isn't for actual proposals. This contract is for someone to conduct a market and economic viability study - in other words to answer the question: Would a United stadium complex in Maryland be successful.

I assume after this study is done they would start talking about sites and state support of the project.

It does, however, signal tht they are serious, and should encourage some kind of committment from Fenty and DC.

What is most interesting about this is the actual package and the stadium plans that are included. Someone who is more technologically savvy than me can probably post the images.

 

Point me to them and I'll give it a shot. I can't find them.

I've got the RFP, but if there are plans and images, I don't see them.

EDIT: Now I do. It's called scroll past the END OF REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL wording.

 

RFP's for the study are due Tuesday, Jan 29th - Final questions about the RFP and the study are due Monday, Jan 28th

Exhibit A of the RFP includes DC United plans dated 02/27/07 - I don't remember if this is the version of the stadium with the wings spreading out over the stands to form a roof or not, but it definitely includes high-priced suites and hotel suites overlooking the field


http://



The rest looks like a boiler-plate contract for any such study with the state or PG County - Section K includes an affirmation to maintain a drug and alcohol abuse free workplace - THANK GOODNESS thats the Contractor's workplace, not the stadium itself - Oddly enough this affirmation may not be applicable if the contract is with a law enforcement agency - 'nuff said

 

Dammit John, you beat me to the rendering. Here's some more detail from the proposal:



Between the club lounge and the street level pub, 22,000 square feet of drinking space.

If anyone wants a larger version of the rendering, you can go here (quicker) or you can download the RFP (slower). It's not going to be much clearer than what John L has put up, though. Just bigger. It's a very indistinct original.

Of interest is that it was done by HKS, the architects for Liverpool's new stadium, the Cowboy's new digs, the Colt's new stadium, Dodger stadium renovation and that glowing triumph, Pizza Hut Park.

 

The significance of all of this is that it is very specific for a stadium for DC United and not some developmental plan that may include a stadium. Not only does it include a stadium but also conference center, hotel, etc. And the deadlines are weeks away for the market studies, which seems to be the MO for the Stadium Authority. So the first steps are taking place to get this in action.

 

Left the country and wasn't online again until today, but I saw that article before I left--and this one in the Examiner: http://www.examiner.com/a-1137731~Fenty_deputy_quits.html

"Sources close to Richardson said that he had openly broken with his longtime friend over the development of the Poplar Point project east of the river.

"Richardson thought that Fenty was deliberately stalling on the project in a poor neighborhood so that credit wouldn’t go to political rivals."

 

Marion Barry and JRB on the DC politics hour, with Barry saying no development will be built at Poplar Point without a stadium.

Only problem is, there's just one potential tenant and if he goes to PG county, the district loses out.

 

Really? You think 27K is too many seats?

When we average 20+ and all signs point to growth in the product which would, I would think, lead to greater attendance rather than less.

I for example, go to between 3 and 6 games per year right now, probably in a group of 4. When a stadium opens I'll have 4 to 6 season tickets to every game. Personally I think a 27K stadium will sell out.

 

Ground level pub... Good, I would hate to stumble and fall down a flight of stairs after a proper drinking session.

 

Let's hope Fenty is a one-termer and thus ends his political career. He sounds like a complete and utter megalomanial a-hole who is more concerned with preening than the city.

 

Who, this guy



How can you say that

 

I have trouble convincing people of this, but the MLS business model is not heavily focused on mass attendance, but getting those luxury box and fieldside seats to go for huge money, and selling out every game helps this.

Plus, when you add seats, you aren't adding the expensive ones, you're adding the cheap ones in the back/corner/upper deck.

Audience growth is a factor to consider, though true growth in the grass roots popularity of the league is likely to take more time than most of us think. But the main point I want to make is that you don't measure your stadium size by what you draw on your very best days, but what you draw on your so-so days, so that it will nearly always be full. It's cheaper to jack up the prices of the good seats than it is to build more cheap ones.

27,000 would be the (tied for) the largest all-seater built primarily for soccer in the entire country, and there's a reason for that. You don't see Red Bull Park lining up to outdo it (even though the owners know there's huge potential for that market if they ever put together a strong team with a marketable star). Their stadium only seats 25k.

 

I had never seen it put quite that way before. And biased though he is, it's interesting to hear someone fairly close to 'the inside' voice the same complaint heard so often around here.

 

Here's the average annual attendance for DCU, from wikipedia:

----
Average attendance
regular season/playoffs

• 1996: 15,262/18,946
• 1997: 16,698/20,202
• 1998: 16,008/14,903
• 1999: 17,419/12,647
• 2000: 18,580/missed playoffs
• 2001: 21,518/missed playoffs
• 2002: 16,519/missed playoffs
• 2003: 15,565/15,202
• 2004: 17,232/18,842
• 2005: 16,664/20,089
• 2006: 18,215/20,504
• 2007: 20,967/19,438
• All-Time: 17,619

-------

So.. my guess is 27,000 would result in 3-4 sellouts/year, but would also feel pretty empty for those 14K-16K attendance games. I wouldn't mind something in the 22K-25K seat range (with expansion potential), to contribute even more to the atmosphere and help create demand.

Might be good for the supporter's clubs, too.

 

My signature has never seemed more appropriate.

 

This is largely an opinion, but look at it this way. Going to their own stadium, DC United would have more money. The trend of increasing money league wide means better players (most immediately a a designated player would make more financial sense), which in turnn can translate into increased attendance.
The increased revenue that came with Toyota park has made Blanco a more economically feasible sign, and reciprocating he's helped sell seats.
I know it's not completely as straightforward as that, but getting a soccer stadium has great impacts in a club aside from gameday experience. Most teams have seen attendance numbers impacted upon completion of a stadium, and this one would be in a much better location than almost all of them so far.