Is Cesc Fabregas rightl

Discussion in 'England' started by dwanyewest, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. dwanyewest

    dwanyewest Guest

    Jun 29, 2005
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    Typo mistake i think he has a point its a big world out there who says english players have to play in england it never did Owen Hargreaves any harm. But I doubt it will ever happen cause i believe English plays are too technically limited and insular for a decent foreign team to want them.
     
  2. Right Foot Planted

    Aug 11, 2007
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    The reason that English players rarely leave for foreign soil is simply down to economics. Why would foreign clubs spend five-fold on a player the domestic or other foreign equivalent of which would cost pennies by comparison. It's a saturated market, with a highly appraised currency, and clubs that are unquestionably the wealthiest and most thoroughly financed in the world; each of which is looking to turn a profit and is doing so at high pressure competition.

    It would certainly help English players become more varied, the foreign experience, but barring the economic ruin of English football, it's not likely to happen as any exodus anytime soon.
     
  3. Gorton Blue

    Gorton Blue New Member

    Jun 8, 2006
    Maryland/ Manchester
    The economic point is valid as English players often cost more than their proper value. However, Keegan Lineker McManaman and to some extent Beckham were able to have success playing on the continent for big clubs.
     
  4. dwanyewest

    dwanyewest Guest

    Jun 29, 2005
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    Personally i believe its insularity and deficiency in technical skills because an increasing number of Spanish players like torres, alsonso have come to england to get more first team football what about italy with luca toni in germany, zambrotta at barcelona. Personally if i was a young english player i would try to get first team where i can get but i feel english players are too lazy, thick and soft to try anything else its easier to blame foreigners for what they seem to think is there entitlement of first team football.

    Since foreign clubs are searching worldwide for talent dont you find it interesting that they never seem to acquire english players maybe they dont rate our players also


    http://blogs.reuters.com/soccer/2007/11/30/english-players-should-get-out-more/
     
  5. FNU

    FNU BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 6, 2007
    Monte Vesuvio
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I think there's great interest in Gerrard or Lampard from Juve. I'm not sure if a move to Juve will improve their game, but it wouldn't hurt.
     
  6. CaptVimes

    CaptVimes New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    It isnt just economics you just have to listen to most of our players talk to realise they arent the most educated of people and there is a large amount of xenophobia in the game demonstrated by comments every week about foreingers.

    It does seem that a lot of youngsters would rather stay in a mid table premiership youth team than take a chance on playing in Germany, Italy, France or Spain. Sure in the short term they might not earn as much but if it improves them as a player they will be repaid ten fold when they come back.
     
  7. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 7, 2001
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?



    So how come the Spaniards and their 'super-human' technical skills havent even been an international semi final since the 60s?
    and how come the best spanish clubs are ram-packed with imports?

    this is in the wrong forum.
    somebody move this shiit to the premiership forum.
     
  8. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    This I reckon is often the problem. English players it seems would rather sit comfortably on a premiership club bench in the knowledge that they'll get their fat paycheck anyway than do any serious career planning.

    As for English players being too expensive for clubs abroad: if you're really that good, the Real Madrids and AC Milans of this world really wouldn't be put off by your price tag.
     
  9. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas
    this has been discussed in depth in other recent threads, so why is it being rehashed again..??
     
  10. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    they wouldn't, but the sort of players they'd be looking at wouldn't be the sort of players who'd be sitting on the bench.

    Where else in the the world would someone like Steve Sidwell be offered £25,000 a week, let alone what Chelsea ended up offering him to have a subliminal career at Stamford Bridge?
     
  11. purpleronnie

    purpleronnie New Member

    May 29, 2006
    Wow this is something I have mentioned before.

    I feel a lack of ambition is one of the reasons for englands poor performances.

    If you play in Germany, spain, italy etc..You learn new tactical approach, experience diffrent cultures etc...

    This can only make a playerimprove.

    But unfortunately english players are way to comfortable, too much pay, with all their mates, wags, etc....

    Although I understand its tough to move to another country away from family and friends, for less money, different languauge.

    But thats what it takes to be a better player.

    I feel most players dont really care about becoming a better player, if they did they would leave.
     
  12. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas
    Nowhere.....and thats the reason English players play in England....across the board they make more money than they would anywhere else.
     
  13. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    well, spain did make a final in 1984, losing to platini's france, but point taken. ;)
     
  14. Devil_78

    Devil_78 Member

    May 7, 2001
    Kashiwazaki, Japan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I dont think it is just economics. Though, that is a big plus. After all, a footballers career is a short one, at least, that is what the PFA bang on about to justify the massive salaries at the top end of the league.

    So, why move to Germany when you can be paid more in England?

    Also, there is a culture of fear. Moving into the unknown. After all, for many of the players coming to England, they have some command of the English language. Note, I said, many, not ALL. They are exposed to England because it is compulsory to teach English to kids in many European countries, for 3 or 4 years, and then there are TV programs, movies, and music. All these give people on the continent some exposure to English, no matter how limited. For our guys, the chances are they took French for the barest minimum of time, and jacked it when they could. So, for our guys, going overseas means learning a whole new language. So, they have to decide. Live in England on a comfy salary. Know where your friends are. Be able to (sort of) speak the language. Or move overseas. Possibility of lower pay packet. You wont know the language, leaving you isolated.

    I know this is all generalization, however, it does stand true I think as a main factor that is stopping our guys go overseas.
     
  15. CaptVimes

    CaptVimes New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    To get champions league/UEFA cup/first team football. Delete where appropriate for the player in question. I do remember that when the French league had a lot more money than the English league a few players did make the move with varying degrees of success integrating with the culture and language. Keown managed to learn French while at Arsenal taking up the option given to all players for language classes.
     
  16. clynnog

    clynnog New Member

    Nov 11, 2004
    Most english players jacked in school at 16 (and weren't exactly scholars before that), with the minimum of qualifications and language skills. I can't see any of the current English NT learning a 2nd language for interest. Most of their foreign holidays are to Ibiza, Ayia Napa or some other chav playground/vomitorium. Hargreaves is one of the more cerebral NT players and he spent 5 + years in Germany and his childhood in Calgary.
     
  17. xamaicano

    xamaicano Member

    Nov 4, 2004
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    It's economics

    Good Spanish players moving to the EPL and good Italian players moving outside of Seria A is something new. There has been a history of good English players playing abroad. The EPL is the richest league so there are less doing so now. Would Rush, Linekar and others play outside the EPL now? Probably not. If there were comparable teams in Spain that could offer the same kind of consistent Champions league play outside of Barcelona and Real Madrid as Arsenal and Liverpool, Cesc would still be in Spain. While playing for a current top 4 team in Spain other than Barca or Madrid would be great for a English player the likelihood of that team remaining there would suspect at most. The English players that would be attractive to either Barca or Madrid are already playing for Man United, Chelsea or Liverpool. And the rest cost too much for Arsenal to buy. English players playing abroad would require that teams outside of the top four having less money than their counterparts in Spain and Italy. Players that aren't attractive to England's top four are just too expensive to worth risk of Italian or Spanish teams. Hell, most are too expensive for Arsenal.
     
  18. Fung

    Fung New Member

    Jan 11, 2007
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    I think this is filled with some bad info from sinner. Spain has had a very talented team for ages, but they have always been divided at best. What you had was a team filled with players who didnt feel anything for the country, and was more divided into two camps Barcelona and Real Madrid than a unity, you cant win anything with that.
    They do have alot of imports, but they also have more "homegrown" players in their starting XI than any of the top4 English teams.

    But there are several reasons why English players doesnt move outside England. One is the fact that they are generally more expensive than players elsewhere, the English game is alot more physically based than the Spanish/Italian leagues so often the English talents might not be as technically skilled than their counterparts but they are stronger. Also is the wages, they are happy with earning a fat paycheck in a mid table English team, than a top4 contending team elsewhere.
     
  19. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    10 plus years that is.

    It's true though. Henry spoke more articulate english in parkinson interviews than most english players could ever manage.
     
  20. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    the point is that spanish players show excellent technical skills at some level, but not internationally against the BEST teams where they are outplayed and mentally blocked up inside.

    english players have not shown these skills anywhere was his point. (i think).
     
  21. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 7, 2001
    Re: Is Cesc Fabregas right?

    ooooh the spanish and their 'excellent' technical skills have got a laughable international record. How the hell does advice from them help us??


    Real madrid fielded only 3 spaniards this weekend.

    http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/match?id=226621&cc=5739
     
  22. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    That's a fair (and sad) point.
     
  23. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Re: It's economics

    I'm not so sure about that. I don't imagine someone like Mcmanaman, for example, moving to Spain specifically for the money. There are players who move abroad for the challenge and the chance to experience a new and different (football) culture. Unfortunately for England fans, there aren't that many of them.

    I think most successful English footballers in the premiership would worry about embarking on a foreign adventure for various reasons, inspired by the very weird love-hate relationship the English with all things continental. The way the English admire Wenger for his sophisticated tastes, for example, and at the same time hate him for it. Capello's getting that already as well. On the one hand they love that he's an art collector, on the other they'll whack him over the head with this fact as soon as he loses a game with England and call him a pretentious ponce (you've heard it here first).
     
  24. Seaside Mafia

    Seaside Mafia New Member

    May 29, 2005
    London
    Re: It's economics

    I've long hoped that english players would start to play abroad again. The 80s/early 90s had quite a few: Keegan, Souness, Wilkins, Lawrie Cunningham, Hoddle, Waddle, Hately, Platt, Blissett, Woodcock, Francis, Rush, then Gascoigne, Ince, and McManaman. For the most part they did go for more money, as foreign clubs actually were paying higher salaries in the days before the Premier League and Sky financial dominance. However, you did get the feeling that they did it for the adventure as well - apart from Ian Rush!
    These days English players still command premium prices and wages from English clubs. I still cannot see one financially sound reason for this. I can't see any market forces that require this to happen. If anything, with the influx of foreign players into the Prem, the cost of buying English players should have dropped.
    I think that the principal reason why foreign clubs won't buy English players is that the players don't want to go, as they earn more than enough where they are. For this generation of player that's what matters. They're more under the influence of agents than ever before and there is no room for the romance of football. So long as this mind-set prevails, it makes no financial sense for foreign clubs to want to buy the spoilt tossers anyway.
    However, I do predict that within 2 years Stephen Gerrard will have moved abroad.
     

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