Ron Paul for President - Part III

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Matt in the Hat, Nov 27, 2007.

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  1. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    (1) Right, but it's easiest for those the state can least afford to lose, ie the most productive among those discriminated against (or sympathetic to those discriminated against).
    (2) Democracy notwithstanding, Government sucks. Rule by one's idiotic neighbors therefore sucks. Rule by idiots far away who don't know jack about or care about you or your state is potentially a lot worse. Washington management of assisted suicide in Oregon or medical marajuana in California or Hurricanes in Louisiana or welfare for illegals in Arizona or warrentless wiretapping anywhere or any internal affair in Iraq sucks.
    (3) Not sure who's expanded rights you are referring to. (Punt)
    (4) Actually Ron Paul calls them "scapegoats for a bad economy". He only wants to end welfare and birthright citizenship for illegals. But yeah, switching countries is hard, best to block the federal government from imposing uniform tyranny.
    (5) Mrs Parks had a different idea: demonstrate her value to the economy of the region by inspiring and joining a boycott.
    (6) In the end, a Constitution is no better than the people obeying it. The Founders didn't even specify a means of enforcing the Constitution. One could think of it as "commandments", ie "here is what this government is for, don't let it do anything else or you'll be sorry".
    (7) Discrimination based on race/gender/creed always drives away valuable people. Perhaps Martin Luther King's greatest achievement was showing southern blacks that they had value by the success of his boycotts.
    As for the small number of truly valueless, Americans have a tradition of charitable giving.
    (8) It's easy to find fault with the Old South, but I don't think any of us would say states regularly engaged in ethnic cleansing.

    The Articles of Confederation failed to raise war funds, otherwise, they weren't that bad. The Constitution was an improvement not a rejection.
     
  3. John Kevin W. Desk

    John Kevin W. Desk New Member

    Mar 5, 2007
    Jesus, enough of trying to make Parks and King into instruments of the Invisible Hand. That ain't how it happened. The boycott ended after a Supreme Court decision, not because white Alabama cared about money.

    Look, here's a selected chronology:

    1776: Free market established in the United States
    1865: Free market ends slavery (haw haw haw)
    1871: Ku Klux Klan Act
    1875: Civil Rights Act
    1877: Reconstruction ends
    1883: Civil Rights Act of 1875 found unconstitutional...see, it regulated private companies - fortunately, the free market was able to step in and oh wait no
    1889: Fleet Walker retires from baseball
    1896: Plessy v. Ferguson
    1915: "Birth of a Nation" - Klan reforms
    1929: Free market suffers slight setback
    1936: Jesse Owens shows up Hitler
    1938: Joe Louis beats Max Schmeling
    1945: Fascism and white supremacy defeated in Europe, returning black soldiers and sailors start to put two and two together
    1946: Rams move to Los Angeles, re-integrate NFL
    1947: Jackie Robinson joins Dodgers
    1949: Truman reintegrates armed forces
    1954: Brown v. Board of Education
    1955: Rosa Parks arrested
    1956: Browder v. Gayle; Montgomery bus boycott ends
    1957: Little Rock crisis; First Civil Rights Act passed since 1875
    1960: Civil Rights Act providing federal inspection of voting
    1961: Freedom Rides; Kennedy orders Interstate Commerce Commission to enforce desegregation
    1963: "Letter from a Birmingham Jail"; Wallace bars University of Alabama to black students; Medgar Evers murdered
    1964: Civil Rights Act ending most segregation in America
    1965: Free market celebrates 100 years of doing jack shit for civil rights

    For further reading, please consult a god-damned book or something
     
  4. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Getting rid of the Articles of Confederation was about much more than their inability to raise war funds. Read Gordon Wood or David Stewart's relatively new book "The Summer of 1787."
     
  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was thinking of libertarianism, not anti-Iraq War. Which makes me wonder--why didn't Kucinich get more traction? Whatever.

    As for his states rights/anti-civil right legislation views becoming a distraction, I think that's only an issue if he becomes a serious contender rather than an interesting spoiler. Sorry Ron Paul supporters, I don't see that happening.
     
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks--will check at least one of those out.
     
  7. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    JKWD,

    You forgot the rest of the timeline

    1965-2007 - America grows up and for most intents and purposes embraces the concept of racial harmony.

    Seems like as good a time as any to eliminate some of that government instilled racial bias designed to level the playing field.
     
  8. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    That timeline is preposterously silly.
     
  9. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Don't know the David Stewart, but Wood's Creation of the American Republic is great, literally changing how most historians understood the Constitutional moment, but kind of a slog for the non-professional historian (and truthfully, the professional ones as well. There's a single paragraph, on like page 671, that's regarded as the holy grail by grad students because he lays out his argument very concisely). His Radicalism of the American Revolution, however, is wonderfully readable.
     
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Silly with truth
     
  11. John Kevin W. Desk

    John Kevin W. Desk New Member

    Mar 5, 2007
    If wrong were oil, George Bush would invade you
     
  12. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed as to Wood.

    Stewart's Summer of 1787 was published earlier this year. It doesn't really break any new ground but gives more of a "firsthand" view of the proceedings as he used primarily delegates' journals and letters as his source material. It's very readable.
     
  13. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's sad to see that so many of you can't see how far we have come. But then to do that, it would put your ideology of victimhood and the gain of power through oppressing those you claim to support out of business.
     
  14. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
  15. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    My observations:
    1. Nothing in that editorial really deals with the actual policies Paul espouses. The author is properly angry at the war, but he never gets to the question of how Paul's "non-interventionist" policy would actually work.

    2. The editorial only briefly mentions any domestic policy, and then only monetary policy.

    3. Does anyone else who actually WATCHED It's a Wonderful Life find it ironic and amusing that a libertarian would invoke the specter of Pottersville?

    My conclusion is that Ron Paul's "Freedom" message is liberating to the author, but the author has not done the hard work of understanding the actual message.
     
  16. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why do you always assume this about Paul supporters? We aren't ********ing idiots here. He was addressing other Paul supporters. They get it.
     
  17. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    I'm responding to the linked editorial, Contrarian Man. You can read it yourself and decide whether the author spends more time opposing current policies than he does supporting Paul's positions.

    And you can make your own decision whether It's A Wonderful Life is the libertarian's blueprint.
     
  18. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like I said, ironic name, he is addressing other Paul supporters. He isn't addressing you. But you automatically assert that this guy misunderstands the message. How pompus of you.

    And I hate It's a Wonderful life. But I don't find it ironic at all. Did George get a bailout from the government that I forgot about?

    Oh, that's right. He got help from his friends and family. Not really sure what's so anti-libertarian about that.
     
  19. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    Shocking.
     
  20. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's more due to the ass script and the poor production. If it means anything, I'm a big fan of Death of a Salesman which touches on similar themes but it's done a whole lot better.

    Frank Capra can't hold a candle to Arthur Miller
     
  21. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    [youtube]mbSBqwM3_2c[/youtube]
     
  22. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Oh the humanity!

    by the way, anybody notice the subliminal message in the blimp they chose?

    [​IMG]

    no?

    it is pretty, well, um.....




    WHITE!
     
  24. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    I hope the Objectivist Club is getting royalties for that.

    Better yet, I hope they're not and they sue to protect their intellectual property.
     
  25. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    And what's with the herpes sore on the "n" ?
     

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