I found a very nice Spanish (not Argentine) red named El Burro Kickass Garnacha. I've been drinking the '05 vintage. It's 100% Garnacha grapes, and retails for about 8 bucks, at least in DC. The label is pretty cool too
INLAND EMPIRE Met many Hondurans here. You are right I haven't been to Honduras, but considering you were vastly wrong about Mexicans views on illegals its not far fetched to think you are wrong about Hondurans views on illegals.
So since you live in the US, it is safe to assume you can relate to people who abandoned their home country? I have spent a year and a half in Honduras, and a few months in Guadalajara. Of the many people I met, many shared the opinion that I hold. A few didn't...they were the ones who left for the US. Just like druggies and loud neighbours typically don't care or don't believe that their neighbours hold contempt for them, I wouldn't expect you to understand the contempt held by nationals of Mexico or Honduras for people like you.
The Hondurans have contempt for the people leaving Honduras, or the Hondurans have contempt for people coming over their borders...can someone bring me up to speed?
This is in no way scientific, just my own observation. Hondurans and Mexicans seem to be split in two as far as opinions about jumping the border illegally. The Hondurans and Mexicans that stay in their own country and have no plans to move to the US, have a general contempt for their own countrymen that think things are better on the other side. General and common insults towards them include lazy, shortcutters, family abandoners, lawbreakers, gangsters, hoodlums, etc. Then there are those who sympathize with the border jumpers. They typically jump sooner or later. They obviously think nothing is wrong with their decision, and apparently, don't see or care about the contempt held toward them.
I see. I didn't observe that exact sentiment, but there was certainly animosity towards individuals when they left with the intention of sending back money, or returning for the rest of the family and then failed to do so. I did observe a fair amount of xenophobia and racism in Central America towards illegals from other CA/SA countries.
Yeah, and I think that might have been a little bit of fuel for the contempt I speak about. I had the opportunity to work with a few mothers of quite a few children who let their husbands go thinking they would get ahead...and ended up having their husbands never call or send anything at all. It sure made me feel contempt for them...and my reaction was mild compared to the family members of these mothers. Yeah, I saw that all over the place too. Especially Peruvians in Honduras, and everybody in Mexico. It is amazing how tough Mexico is on illegal immigration and yet how their own government officials call us racist for the same practices. Most of the Hondurans I know that attempted to jump the border ended up getting caught and jailed somewhere in Mexico for some time before they were deported back to Honduras.
I bet, that's a horrible situation to be caught in. Of course, Mexico's hypocrisy doesn't mean that our policies don't deserve criticism. I think that as a nation we have profited from having a large group of cheap workers--the profit has been had privately and through taxes. Unfortunately, because our policies are essentially a 30 year pile of stopgaps and generally insufficient to deal with the reality of the situation, the cost of the illegal population is felt locally rather than nationally--it hits specific schools, hospitals, municipalities much harder than others. I think that nationally and internationally we need to evaluate our policies to see how they encourage people to feel the need to leave their countries to begin with. Many steps can be made, from ratification of the Interamerican Convention on Human Rights to encouraging sustainable development.
For your information I was born in Los Angeles (I know very Mexican city but part of the US nonetheless) This general contempt is amusing. I've told you before that Mexicans understand why people cross the border and sympathize with them. And have contempt for the government who is not able to provide an environment for people to stay. Are there people who probably have some contempt for their own countrymen. Yes, but they are in the minority; the extremely small minority. You are basing your thoughts on some people who have broken promises to their families of providing aid or are hoodlums. Of course those people are held in contempt. But the vast majority of people who cross the border are looking for a better economic situation to help their families. And the vast majority of Mexicans understand that and understand their mindset and don't hold them in contempt for doing that.
after reading your exchange in this thread, I have come to a non-scientific opinion that you are stupid.
The worst part of illegal immigration is by allowing it, we really don't have a clue who were are as a people. We should be self-fulfiilling and independent. If we have to pick lettuce, we'll do it. If we have to mow the lawn, we'll do it. We'll only import if we have to. We have an idea who we are. Unfortunately, this is FANTASY. If we're the world, we have NO idea who we are. We're just a place for people to get as much $ for their work, more than what they get in their home country-and that, my friends, is a load of bu lll.
How many years of your life have you lived in Mexico...cause all of your information points to the idea that you only know Mexicans who have crossed. I would think the same way as you if that were the case...so I'm not blaming you.
Oh, I definitely see the profit. I personally think open borders would be a good thing eventually (if we get rid of the welfare state, like I said before). I have no problem with open borders as long as it is not a drain on the economy. I can see many sides to the argument as well. I think it is a little unfair to developing countries that they can't seem to keep their workforce and seem dependent on the US. I would like to see Honduras one day with true autonomy...not just the illusion of such. They are fighting an uphill battle as long as they keep losing their population to the US. I do wish we could help other governments reform policies to make their own countries attractive to their own countrymen. Considering the general contempt that other countries hold towards us because of our Iron Hand policies, I don't think we will be able to play the mentor role any time soon.
I am a mexican who lives in Mexico and I don't have contempt for mexicans who cross the border. I do have contempt for hondurans though.
Since the money that illegal immigrants send home is a significant chunk of the economy in Mexico and Honduras, I wonder just how much stock we should put in anecdotal evidence that "most Mexicans and most Hondurans hold illegal immigrants in contempt."
If dannytoone's grandfather had stayed in Honduras, we wouldn't have to endure this stupid thread. Therefore, I feel vast amounts of contempt for dannytoone's grandfather for jumping the border and for spawning future generations that would eventually become dannytoone.
Actually, if you simply didn't read or post in this thread you wouldn't have to endure it. Don't go blaming it on Toone's grandpa.
Yeah. I think people in mexico and honduras hold contempt for folks who say they'll send money back and then don't, but given community studies over the last 30 years showing that upwards of 80% of families in many Mexican villages are in some ways dependent on wages earned in the US, I really doubt there's generalized contempt for people who cross the border to work. This documentary is a great look at the effects of wages earned in upstate NY on one community in Mexico. http://www.sixthsection.com/page-about.html
I've spent almost every summer from when I was like 5 years old until now in various parts of Mexico. I see Mexican television, I see the reports they have on immigration on the Mexican news almost every night. I dam well know more about this issue than someone who spent a couple of months in Guadalajara. Talking to who knows who. You already have someone from Mexico say that he has no contempt for the people that come over. Start a thread in the Mexico forum and see how many of our posters from Mexico respond to your view? Just watch