Change this! Americanizing, head-scratching, super thread so you can ignore them if you want to

Re: Why FC over SC?

I haven't experienced it.

When I talk to Europeans in Europe about the sport, I say "football" and have no problems. That's the context. when I talk to Americans -- about the World Cup or the CL or MLS -- I say "soccer" and people get it. I don't think I've ever had anyone say to me that they thought the term "soccer" itself was childish (though I've had folks mock the sport as played in the US, just not the name itself). Moreimprotantly, I've never had anyone -- when discussing the sport within the US -- be confused or even put off by the term "soccer". It's just a word, a name for a sport.

My father in law is a big soccer fan, watches European leagues and all that (and doesn't care for MLS). He we as born and grew up in Europe (albeit in Greece, though the term for the sport there is a literal translation of "football" and where they use the term "football" without problem). When we talka bout the sport, we say "soccer". If we want to talk about the Redskins, we say "football". That way there's no confusion.

Now, admittedly, I probably haven't been hanging out with the most elitist of Eurosnobs. That's fine and I'm sure there are plenty of folks that you describe. Just like there are foklks who hate MLS for not being single table or having playoffs. But I think that overall, just like people can deal with a conferance and playoff based league if they want to, they can deal with the fact that the sport is called "soccer" here.

I think the context you are evoking is simply another way to dismiss US soccer by something which is absolutely irrelevent to the play on the field.There's little reason to think that "soccer" (the word) is tied to youth sports or suburbs any more than there is to think "football" is just because kids on the streets of Rio de Janeiro are kicking around large stone into a "goal" made of 2 trees.

YMMV, but I hardly think the term "soccer" is holding back the sport when the majority of Americans refer to it as such.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

I have to disagree with your assessments for the same reasons I have listed before; I do believe there is a stigma and I think most persons that have spent quite a lot of time outside of the States would most likely agree with me. It is not an association with children, as you are missing the point. It is an association with the juvenile phase of football development in America.

That said, I am truly disappointed that you brought our level of debate down to the "Eurosnob" name-calling level. That method of argument is one of my (and I am sure many) least favourite things about this forum. I can only hope that BS is not a true representation of the understanding or acceptance level of American football supporters at large.

I had high hopes for the discussion but was apparently mistaken in them.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

Well, to be honest, soccer will never be called football in this country, except by a select few. The majority (which include fans of the game who have been fans way longer than a lot of the current "soccer=football" crowd have been alive) will continue to call it soccer. We know what it is; we don't have to be told, and we'll continue to buck when people try to force us to call soccer football. "Football" in the US and Canada is the NFL, CFL, college, and high school tackle football, and forevermore shall be. I'm fine with it.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

When I used the term "eurosnob" there, I was using it in a very extreme sterotipical manner -- to mean a person who is so snobbish about european soccer than nothing that is done in America can ever be good. I wasn't using it to disparage your point of view, but to point out that most of my dealings are with people who might enjoy European soccer but aren't thoroughly engrossed in it.

Sorry if that offended you, it wasn't meant as any jab in the context of this conversation.

Anyway, to counter your point: I'm not certain that the the people that MLS needs to target are people who have "spent a lot of time in Europe". I suspect that would be only a small percentage of potential soccer fans in the US. I think the better target is people who do indeed like soccer -- and perhaps do watch and follow European leagues -- but who have grown accomstumed to the sport in the US and are used to it being called "soccer". The number of those people IMHO likely vastly outnumbers folks in this country who are turned off from a simple name.

In my experience, the vast majority of Americans -- even those who are soccer friendly -- call the sport "soccer". And using the term "football" would be unnecessarily confusing for them unless used in a very specific context. I just don't see the point. And I think it would turn off more people than it would turn on to the sport in this country (it's only going to incite soccer bashers more to commonly refer to the sport as "football" who will think it's a pathetic attempt to usurp the NFL's prominance while making the league seem more "Mickey Mouse" to many as it plays weird PR games). Again, just IMHO.

And anyway, I'd simply disagree that the sport is in a state of "juvenile" development in the US, so we probably won't see eye to eye on this anyway. MLS isn't close a top European league, certainly, but it is a decent league, better than many of those in countries where the sport gets top billing. Our attendance in MLS And the sport is widely played in this country by youths and adults. If anything, I think the attitude that the sport is "juvenile" in the US would be more of an issue than the name. If more people would simply watch MLS and enjoy it for the level it is at and not focus on stuff that doesn't matter (like the name of the sport or the way teams are listed int he standings) then it would continue to grow at a mcuh greater pace and become one fo the top leagues in the world easily.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

Exactly my point.

Using "football" (or "FC") more might bring a few Eurocentric folks into the fold to follow MLS, but it is likely that they'll just find some other reason to disparage the league as inferior even with a name change.

Meanwhile, such a move is going to cause a lot of head scratching and confusion (and ridicule) from the general American public who might potentially become MLS fans. Using a term that means something completely different to the vast majority of the population isn't going to help MLS be embraced in the public psyche and progress to becoming a more mainstream and popular sport.

And don't get me wrong: if some teams want to call themselves "FC" or somesuch, then fine. I think it's a bit silly, but I don't think it will make much of a difference good or bad for the league. However, there's no way the league as a whole should suddenly start using "football" in its press releases or change its name to "MLF" or the like. That would be counterproductive IMHO.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

Well see, thats exactly my point - I'm not talking about already established Soccer fans thinking about the American Football Conference whenever they see or hear the words "AFC" attached to the ends of their team names; I'm talking about the reverse end: Non-soccer fans will think of the AFC more so than Soccer. They will think American Football, the wrong branch of the sport, which is NOT a desired effect. .

And aside from Sunderland, none of those are big marquee teams. Regardless, with the notable exceptions of Telford and Bournemouth, all of those teams have been around for over a century! They were created before the AFC ever even existed. I'll give you that - the locals wouldn't mistake the acronym for anything else, but how big is their team's presence world-wide let alone within their own country? They aren't even a blip on the radar for the most part. The MLS is constantly growing and expanding - how soon do you think until its influence reaches a steady , constant, international scale? Speaking of international influence in the matter, which country do you think has more Asian immigrants, the UK or the US? Its without a doubt the latter. As a Korean immigrant myself, I'll tell you that when most new Asians think of "AFC", they think of FIFA.

The MLS is creating teams in the here and now - to add "AFC" to the end of the team name would only be setting themselves up to have to have to change their official team name further down the line.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

I think you're leaving out the fact that most Americans are only vaguely aware of the existence of soccer in America, and the impression they have is generally negative. That's the problem.

Not even bringing the world's opinion into it, which is clearly in favor of "football" over "soccer". What is the opinion of most Americans? Apathy, or outright dislike to the sport itself. At least partly because they are uncomfortable with the fact that America is so far behind the world in the sport. Glorying in the "American-ness" of soccer is pointless because American soccer is not competitive with the best in the world. Who are you going to attract? People who like second-rate football? You're better off hitching your wagon to a stronger horse.

I'm not calling for a boycot of the word "soccer", but the question was "why FC?" and my response is that there is likely no benefit to SC, while there is at least a possible benefit in FC/AFC, and no apparent downside. Why not, then?

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

beautiful thread right here. i love the sound of SC, soccer baby that's what we call it here in the States ever since we were youngins runnin' around on Saturdays. we never heard of FC until we got older and more knowledgable on the game in Europe. that would be a great thing if a new epansion franchise(cough.. cough.. seattle) would throw this title in their name.

 

How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

huh,... how does that sound for ya. it's still soccer/football at it's finest but with an American twist. with this title no local yokal affiliate will screw with the programming just because of the American gridiron sounding title alone, "casual fan" will come out just to fill in the empty seats that are kind of an eyesore on national television, sponsers galore= more money for the league which will mean more dough for player signings next season, more coverage on espn and network news, etc.

-basically it's a win win. i personally like the name MLS Cup i know alot of you "all things euro" like it as well, but we all know the average american joe doesn't get that MLS Cup title at all. -it says nothing of a "season ending final game for a league". in the end we would still get the purity of the game but this time a bigger payoff with bigger money and exposure hence forth a bigger and better MLS every year.

almost every football league in europe is quietly taking concepts from the NFL, it's about time we take a few things as well.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

Like crap.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

I think cup is ingrained in American vernacular pretty well due to hockey's Stanley Cup.

Bowl makes people think football, not soccer.

I doubt changing the name of the game would get people to watch the game anyhow.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_Bowl

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

Yes this is it. Making it the MLS Bowl is the move that will put MLS over the top and make it the most exciting league ever.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

I hate to bash my fellow posters, but that is an awful idea.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

This is a great idea, but there is one problem. Is there a stadium in the country that would be big enough to host the game once the name is changed? I'm thinking maybe the big house in Ann Arbor? It will be tough to settle for just 107,000 at the game, but i guess it's the best we can do.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

it's an interesting idea......

No offense, dude. But, I'm going to have to pass on that one. Let's stick with the MLS Cup.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

What if we called the Super Cup instead. I bet Lamar would have love that.
OR NOT!!!

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

Forget about the average American, they don't know what they are missing. They will only change their minds when they want to, a name change won't do anything. MLS should just focus on appealing to the soccer fans in this country rather than American sports fans.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

Yes to the first, my jury's out on part of the second.

A) I've never been convinced that there are all that many people who would gravitate toward the Game if MLS went out of its way to make it appear to be more like other American sports. I put playoffs in this category as well. Folks who aren't into football aren't going to be into it whether all of MLS' references to it are "soccer" or not.

B) I do understand the reasoning behind putting an American cultural sports stamp on it for its own sake (those who already love the Game and want it to reflect their vision of American culture). But I don't see anything positive about that because the term "soccer" in is also an extension of Anglo culture over all the other cultures represented here that would call it "football". See, there's nothing really European about it when you look at it that way- it's as American as the people here who play the Game and call it "football" (or futbol, futebol, fussball, voetball, calcio).


OTOH, as for which term I use, it's almost always "soccer" when I'm offline.

I have to say this hasn't ever crossed my mind.

 

Re: How 'bout the MLS Bowl instead of the MLS Cup

ok everybody is so f*Ckin' funny now i see. damn near every other post on this site is about how to make the MLS bigger and better and to keep players state-side instead of wanting to take the ever popular euro-route. not sayin' a name change of the MLS Cup will solve all, but it's just a different approach that can add financial rewards in the long run.

-it's funny you bastards forget this country is the WORLD'S SUPERPOWER. even though we are behind is football/soccer standards, once America gets behind something it tends to matter world wide. if 1 in 20 Americans are soccer fans, say we cut that to 1 in 10 Americans are soccer fans just think how good the MLS would be or become.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

Well, I don't know all the history of soccer, but I do believe the game originated somewhere other than the US and then it was called football. FC over SC because even if we call the game soccer in American, it was originally football so keep that history there I'd say.

 

Re: Why FC over SC?

Posts like these bring on endless arguments. The term EuroSnob is ridiculous to me. All these issues about MLS should be secondary. I personally like the sound of FC, but I don't care if a team uses SC, or not. I don't care. Let's talk about getting more games televised, raising revenues, and bringing in more talent in every way.

I love BigSoccer, but I hate arguments that sound like,

Speaker ~ "I am smart"

Responder ~ "No, you are dumb. I am smart"

Speaker responds~ "Nuht uh"

Responder again ~ "Yah huh"....and on and on and on.....

I get so sick of these things~

Does anyone agree with me on this?