CONCACAF: Champions Cup --->>> Champions League

Entering the Mexican and America teams late in the competition is exactly like the UEFA CL. Have you looked at the format closely? The lowest rated associations have to get threough as many as 3 rounds of qualification before getting to the group stage. That would be pretty similar to requiring many/most of the Carribean and Central American teams to qualify to get to the same round as where the FMF and MLS teams enter.

And honestly, if that's the case, would it really be much different than the current setup where Central American and Carribean clubs qualify via the CFU and Interclubes UNCAF tournaments? Seems like they are just making those qualifications (or basically the later stages of those tournaments) part of the actual CCL and probably adding a group stage too.

 

Good recall. I forgot about that.

 

This is exactly how I imagine this working out. MLS/FMF teams will likely get buys into the Group Stage - probably made up of 16 teams, divided into four groups. The "24 teams total" in the CCL would include the teams that enter in an earlier stage and must qualify for the group stage, just like in UEFA.

I'll withhold further judgment until I see the actual details, but I really believe that this tournament is necessary and, despite concerns, it should be pursued and heavily promoted. I don't see it ever eclipsing Copa Libertadores, but it should/could eventually eclipse Copa Sudamericana.

 

1. Yeah, Concacaf has mentioned this before. The difference is that you only have to look at what the CL has done (in terms of money, visibility, interest) to generate more support.

2. The poorer teams/leagues who were obstacles before are more likely to be in favor of this now b/c they see it as a way of generating fan support, a little money.

3. There are still tremendous obstacles to making it work and given the organizational "expertise" of Warner and his posse (that expertise consists mostly of selling of WC tickets for personal gain), there are a lot of ways it could still fall apart. But again, the biggest reason this is likely to happen is that it could be a real money maker over time which means Warner and some of the smaller federations could get on board in a big way.

4. Fixture Congestion? Hey--add WCQ to the mix as well. There are a lot of potential obstacles.

5. I don't think this spells the death of Superliga. I thought Superliga was great this year--despite the naysayers, the teams really fought it ought, there was a lot of chippy play (which tells me there was some passion on the field) and will only get better. We may see a change in the timing of the superliga but I think it will still happen.

6. Part of the reason you have to go with 24 teams is to give each Federation sufficient reason to put real support behind this. So you probably have 3-4 Costa Rica teams for instance, 2 Guatemalan teams, 2 Salvadoran teams, a team from most of the Islands and maybe 2 teams from Jamaica--something like that. And you'd probably have more Mexican teams than MLS teams simply b/c of the TV draw and fan support. And yeah, there will probably be some sort of bye or play-in system.

7. This would just emphasize how critical depth is for MLS teams. Folks are getting all hyper over "we need a 2nd DP" when what each team really needs is Houston style depth --where they have about 17-18 players who they can start. By comparison DCU and Columbus and DCU (who I had rated next in terms of depth) only had about 14-15 players of starting caliber. I'm not sure how I would have rated Colorado but almost all other MLS teams were below 14 in terms of starter--quality sub caliber.

 

The Superliga Is mainly the Concacaf Champions League! The Concacaf Champions Cup should be for teams who seed 4 - 8 in their leagues. Just switch the importance of the CCC to the Superliga. Why have multiple compitions especially when two are pretty much the same thing? How about the top for teams in the CCC could get a Invite to the superliga?

 

I didn't read pages 2 and 3, but I hope the idiots who think they will be playing in December and January were corrected. They'll do a group stage in the fall and a knockout stage in the spring.

Simple as that.

 

24 teams? Well, here's how that will go:

1. Joe Public
2-24. Other teams from other countries, Warner can't be bothered w/ the details.

 

No particular reason. Severe boredom probably contributed as well as trying to figure out how in the world they'll dole out 24 spots in a league format. After that, I just wanted to see what the groups could look like. It's not meant to be anything close to conclusive.

 

True. Does one not think that CONCACAF wouldn't want a 7th-in-the-table, hot Chicago club in the competition, with Blanco playing in his backyard? Not to mention the mid-table clubs that would not only be shooting for a playoff spot but also a CCL spot, with perhaps another guaranteed international home game? If these competitions can be spread out so as not to burn out the top two or four, it helps drive these lower table teams to move up for a spot, instead of accepting their fate mid-season and riding the season out.

There are a boatload of logistical issues to work out though, I will give you that. The main one being, is it truly a Champions League if your 6th place team is representing your division?

 

Um guys, where are you getting your information? Could someone post a link please?

I'm thinking that if it is 24 teams that there is going to be a qualification round to get into a 16 team group stage - kinda like the Uefa Champions League. This is how I envision it:

Automatically qualify (8 teams):
2 MLS (MLS Cup Champions and Supporter's Shield)
2 FMF (Clausura and Apertura Champions)
1 Costa Rican Champion
1 Honduran Champion
1 Guatemalan Champion
1 Caribbean Champion

Qualification Round (16 Teams)
1 Canadian Open Cup Winner
2 MLS (Open Cup and next highest team)
2 FMF
2 Costa Rica
2 Honduras
1 Guatemala
2 El Salvador (Champion and Runner-up)
1 Panama (Champion)
1 Belize (Champion)
1 Nicaragua (Champion)
1 Caribbean (Runner Up)

If any team can't pay for travel they let the next highest rank team that can participate in the tournament

I would have preferred if the tournament began in March and ended in November of December. August to May seems oriented around the FMF schedule

 

wouldn't having the tournament from March to December seem oriented around the MLS season?

Also the Club World Cup is in December, how can we crown the winner then within weeks they play in another tournament?

 

http://www.concacaf.com/view_article.asp?id=4025

 

If CCL happens, CCL and SuperLiga basically the same thing.

CCL winner can declare the championship in this part of the world, and gets berth to CWC, and the runner up gets berth to Copa Sudamericana.

What do you get for SuperLiga? Mexican teams don't even care.

Bye Bye SuperLiga.

 

Yeah, but since the mexican season is really two seasons the competition's the qualifying rounds and first part of the group stage could be during the Clausura with a break and the last part of the group stage and final stages could be during the apertura. I guess the final would have to be like a week after MLS cup at the latest so there's a gaps with the Club World Cup. It's less disruptive then if an MLS team has to split play in the competition between two separate seasons.

 

Well, except that they are not.

SuperLiga is a showcase event for FMF and MLS only, designed to make money and provide publicity.

A CCL would be a confederation championship, designed to provide a "winner" for the region and send that team to the CWC. All teams have to have access and the possibility of winning. The ulitmate concern isn't about marketing.

Considering the CCL and Sudamericana timeframe overlaps, that might be difficult, unless they qualify for the next year's Sudamericana.

THey may claim that, but they play on the field indicates otherwise. Teams don't get into fights - -every game --in games they don't care about.

 

I feel like taking the fantasy express for a moment.

Assumptions:

1. CCL would be a showcase CONCACAF event running from March-October with a summer break. 3 MLS sides. (USOC, MLS Cup and SS winner) in the event of same winners runners up selected, then next best in table.

2. MLS/FMF in fact do want to turn SUperliga into a signifigant event. Top 4 MLS sides not in CCL

3. South America would be willing to buy into SUperliga Champ as 1 Copa Sud participant.


Using this years table and Superliga results: (red=CCC, blue=Superliga)* lets assume Houston wins MLS cup

1. DC UNITED
2.Chivas USA
3. Houston
4. New England
5. FC Dallas
6. New York
7. Chicago
8. Kansas City
9. Columbus
10. Colorado
11. Los Angeles
12. Salt Lake City
13. Toronto

Superliga winner gets Copa Sudameicana.
CCL winner gets FIFA World Club Championships

I like it,



Back to reality though.....CCL if it ever happens i assure you it will be far below any of our expectations as long as Jackoff Warner is around.

 

I am going to chime in with the folks who suggested doing something with South America.

Superliga works, based on the Mexico US rivalry. Don't muck with it unless you have something much better.

You want a Champions league worth watching, pick the best in the continent. A real champions league should include the whole American Continent. Bring the teams from South American, bring in the Argentine, Brazillian etc along with the Costa Rican, US, Mexican clubs.

Now it's worth watching, and its worth the TV rights, hence brings in the money.

If you can;t do it today, develop the infrastructure so you can in the future.

This 24 team with us and the Caribbeans, sounds too force fit to me.

 

Threadjack!

Technically, there are two American continents, North and South, although I know in Ibero-American circles they tend to refer to them as one.

 

People are getting all panicky based on a bunch of assumptions ... Most issues raised by this have pretty simple solutions.

Scheduling ... No need for games in MLS off season. We can play group stage in fall and play knock out stage in spring. That should work with avoiding the Mexican offseason too.

Too many teams ... Nobody said that all 24 teams would be in a group stage. It'll most likely be 16 (4 Mex, 4 US, 2 Costa Rica, 1 Canada, 1 Honduras + 2 Caribbean qualifiers + 2 Cent. Amer. qualifiers)

Schedule congestion ... Easy. I say drop Superliga and (this is less likely) drop Sudamericana. Eliminate meaningless friendlies and invitational tournaments.

Money for participation ... This is a bit harder to address without knowing all the financial details but hopefully there's a plan in place. Hopefully a Mexican TV station (Televisa?) and an American TV station (GolTV?) and maybe some other smaller channels can help fund this.

 

Isn't an easier solution to simply have different teams participating in different competitions? I think having MLS teams participating in multiple meaninful competitions is a good thing to expand the brand of the league.

There's no reason it has to be the same team(s) in the CCL, SuperLiga, Sudamericana, etc..

 

Sure if it works why not. I just don't think SL should interfere with this proposed CL. If anything needs to be eliminated, I say SL should go first. I am also strongly in favor of expanding USOC to H/A format.

 

Waaaaay too long.

Do it like Libertadores. Start the Caribbean eliminations in May, have the mainland join in march, final in May. Games every wednesday.

 

Yeah right...
Like it or not it depends of your performance on the CCC(CCL in the future), and it is not exclusively for teams of United States and Mexico, so forget it.

 

Folks, this is CONCACAF; I don't see a lot of interest or money in this tourney. But, if they could pull it off, I would like to see this:

4 Carribean teams play down to 2.
8 Central American teams also play down to 4
4 MFL teams
4 MLS teams
2 Canadian teams

16 teams - 4 groups home and away

Home and away after that.

Final in LA.

Sweet dream, though. Remember, this is a CONCACAF tourney.

 

This has been discussed ad nauseum. Check the other past threads.

TV ratings are probably not going to be that much different whether an MLS or MLF side is playing Joe Public or some team from South America NOT NAMED BOCA, RIVER, or the usual bevy of teams people bring up in South American competition. There's really only a handful of SA teams that can draw interest in North America. The Venezuelan or Bolivian runners-up are not going to make enough people notice to justify their inclusion.

No matter what Rugby may think (qualifying for all of Americas), saying North and South America are the same continent is like saying Asia and Africa are the same continent.