First, I'm going to be disappointed if the biggest controversy I ever launch on BS is about a 10-year old rumor. But second, I'd have to say that the people who are angry that dsp doesn't understand the meaning of "prove" are right. But they in turn don't understand the meaning of the word evidence. He has provided evidence. You all have not. He has said that Harkes wrote denying the rumor. Also, that the Harkes and the Wynaldas are friendly. The former is solid evidence, though not necessarily the final world. The latter is circumstantial, but generally telling. While there are indeed couples that get through this sort of thing, the idea that Harkes and Wynalda were at such loggerheads that Waldo actually got Harkes kicked off the team, yet a few weeks later, they were all buddy-buddy - that's not credible. Remember, the rumor is not that Harkes had an affair with Wynalda's wife. The rumor is that Harkes was kicked off the team because of the horrendous bad blood stirred up by an affair with Wynalda's wife.
Thank you.....though I do have to repeat that I know what the word "prove" means (the people saying otherwise are NOT right). I know "prove" isn't technically the right word ("debunk" is more fitting), but I've used it in an over-the-top manner out of frustration with those who insist on denying all logic and common sense (and will probably continue to use it even though doesn't fit the technical standard). I'm gonna' lay out my evidence again as best as I can recall... 1. Harkes' book...in it he discusses what went on around that time and he has a lot of good things to say about his friendship with the Wynaldas and how they stood by him. He also mentions the rumor and describes it as ridiculous (though it was about him and Sampson's wife as he told it)...keep in mind this book was written not too long after the whole 1998 debacle (available for purchase by late 1998, or early 1999) 2. In 2002 Wynalda on National TV said that Harkes being cut was a bad thing for the team and helped to turn the team against the coach even more. (he said this in comparison to Roy Keane being sent home from the Irish team during his WC analysis...obviously before the Irish had played any games) 3. They have been seen together and seemed friendly since then....Harkes' Hall Of Fame induction in late 1995 for instance....didn't they also play together last year in some sort of Hall of Fame game? (I know Eric played because it was directly before an MLS broadcast he was doing and Stone made a comment about it and they showed the clips of the goal Eric scored...the game was between former US MLS players and former foreign MLS players.) 4. They are married to the same women still. Harkes is most definitely still married to the same woman he was in 1998 (she was at his Hall of Fame induction and he thanked her for her support and she was most definitely introduced as his wife...."I'd like to thank my wife and kids for all their support"...). There seems to be some doubt as to whether Wynalda is still married to the same woman that he married in 1996...but I find it highly unlikely that he managed to marry a blond woman named Amy who was a former college soccer player, then divorced her, and then married another blond woman named Amy who was also a former college soccer player. The facts are that Wynalda is still married to an Amy and they had a daughter in 1999. 5. As hot-headed and mouthy as Wynalda is it's pretty much impossible that there hasn't been some sort of outburst from him at some point after this all would have happened if the rumor were true. (you wouldn't have had points # 2 or 3 at the very least) Seriously think about all of what I've laid out here. Ask yourself if it makes sense....then look at the big pile of nothing that anyone claiming otherwise can show. (A friend of a friend of a friend said "_" type stuff...or even worse "I read it on BigSoccer")
And yet, you're posting has probably done more to continue this rumor than just about anything else. Sometimes the best thing is to walk away and not draw attention to it. Especially when you make a hash of things by offering "proof" that isn't really proof, as if you're trying to hide something. You're doing your cause more harm than good. My advice is to just make a simple, single, post pointing out that both players have denied it - then just move on. Let the threads you find mention of it in die. I know both Eric and John, and I hope that it isn't true. But I don't know one way or the other - and it isn't any of my business to ask. And regardless of that, I don't really care. I am, however, offended by your continued misuse of "proof" and "debunking" and the like. You may have convinced yourself of what you believe, but you have absolutely no hard evidence one way or the other. You can't possibly prove anything. Just let it die.
I have seen no "evidence" of this. I have seen no evidence otherwise. But it's not like they showed up at each other's Hall of Fame inductions. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. And plenty of couples reconcile after mistakes. People staying married isn't evidence of purity. Frankly, dsp's best tack would be to drop the thread altogether, rather than to keep proving that he's an awful debater. His arguments are much like Wallace Shawn's proof of his intelligence in The Princess Bride. Socrates? Plato? Morons!
Bruce Arena and Eric Wynalda were seen joking and talking together on an ESPN broadcast in the fall of 2006. This proves that Eric never called for Bruce Arena to be fired. In other news, given the Bruce's stated disdain for MLS, what do you think the odds are of him landing with another team? I just can't see him eating enough humble pie to go anywhere but the Galaxy, and I'm not sure that Lalas would hire him.
I think I disagree with this. How can you let it die when it keeps coming up as something that happened? Like I said, I read someone who said JH was a lowlife just yesterday. At a minimum, it seems worth letting people consider the fact that sleeping with someone's wife and getting someone kicked off a World Cup roster are two extreme events that would be hard for so many to keep quiet about. The old adage about 3 people can only keep a secret if 2 of them are dead - but this involves a whole team of players. Heck, if I were JH and had been kicked off for that reason, I would certainly have lawyered up. That's a lot of money to walk away from isn't it? Even if it isn't, keeping me off a World Cup roster for personal reasons like that - I wouldn't take lying down - I don't think. It doesn't prove anything either way, but I think it's worth mentioning that there is zero evidence of bad blood other than izha's brother in low who sleeps with mean lawyers and the fact that everyone stayed married and stayed friends is surprising. However, I do agree with Andy that by saying prove and debunk you are casting a lot more doubt on your side. IMO, it would be better to just present the evidence and let people come to their own conclusions. Since you haven't debunked or proven anything, it just makes it seem like the basis for your point of view is less solid than maybe it is.
In Harkes' book, he apparently states that the Wynalda's were supportive through the tough times after being cut which of course doesn't prove anything, but is sort of a strange thing to say if their relationship was the cause of his being cut and there is some bad blood on their end. Do you think it's all a lie? If not, why would you care that someone is pointing this stuff out?
So I come to BS to find discussion on two big coaching stories this week. I find the Yallop thread is a discussion on race and the Arena thread a discussion on marriage infidelity ... I want to check the KC stadium thread but I have a feeling I'll find a discussion on abortion or gun control instead!
There's only one thing to do. Go to the politics forum and find an abortion or gun control thread and hijack it into a discussion on Kansas City's stadium.
Have I not said that his "proof" is actually just "circumstantial evidence"? Ya, thought so. And where have I tried to provide evidence? By pointing out that "other people claimed to know" is more "provable" than dsp's argument? Laughable leap of logic there. I have no Vick dog in the rumor fight. I'm in absolutely no way trying to prove the rumor; can you not see that? It could be true, or it could be absolutely false for all i know. But that isn't the point. This has nothing to do with the rumor, in and of itself. Repped. Princess Bride reference, love it! Umm, personally, I can easily let it die, because it is not me to defend, I don't have intimate knowledge of the situation, and I'm not obsessed. I guess that is just me though. BTW, dsp, are you male or female? Just curious. Ya think? I don't even know whether I think it's a lie or not. And I don't care that he put forth an argument. I do take issue with the fact that he says it's proven, disproven, or debunked. Nothing more, nothing less.
You also said "many people have said they have heard from reliable sources and this has been around since 98". And yet you keep posting. Are you able to convince yourself that this question is not obnoxious on many levels? Just curious. Good to know what really gets your fire going. Potential libel and soccer fans every where making judgements without more info - no big deal - slightly over the top defense of someone who is quite possibly being judged unfairly - hell no!
Yes, I said I was referencing the quotes he replied too. Yet, I also said, I was providing no evidence myself....clear as day. Fun, isn't it? Oh, BTW, I also am legitimately curious...my wife is finishing her double major in sociology & psychology, sort of relevant discussion material. Again, ya think? That said, potential truth too; nothing that can be proven false. And I sure don't believe anyone involved in this "debate," in this thread" is making negative "judgements" of the potential participants based on the arguments provided.
Back on topic (I think) - according to Ives, none of the 4 players that spoke to the media had anything negative to say about Arena - which of course doesn't prove anything http://njmg.typepad.com/sbi/2007/11/red-bulls-playe.html