At what positions is the US at what level at overall?

dont sell Onyewu out early just because he's back in Belgium.
Championship you are talking about DemErit but remember, Bocanagrea has once again had another solid start to his Fulham season. A bad Fulham team

 

both at fault then if you want

 

I believe the cross was just agonizingly over Pope's head. Of course, not a problem for Koller. Problem on that play was the turnover in midfield with quick counterattack down the US's left side where Lewis had vacated. No pressure on the cross, boom, goal. Just like warm-ups.
I could imagine Arena giving last minute instruction to the troops before heading out onto the pitch "ok, whatever we do, let's not let them get unchallenged crosses into the box and for Pete's sake, don't lose track of Koller when he is looking for a cross or he will kill us" OK, maybe he didn't say something exactly like that but I bet he could have puked when Koller scored with 5 minutes into the game because that had to be a point of discussion for the team.

I was sitting just behind the Czech goal and watched their entire warm-up. For a good part of the warm-up, Koller would mess around passing around and taking shots on Peter Cech. Every now and then, someone would call out and cross a ball in towards Koller. Every cross was on his head and he was making a game of hitting the posts with his headers. It was scary deadly and looked too nonchalant - from the crosses to the headers. My entire impression of the warm-up was 2 things: 1) overall, the Czech's looked bigger and more physical than the US 2) their technical skills were superior to the US . 3) Peter Cech did not look like he would be easy to score upon. I was hoping that maybe the US could tire the Czechs but that plan went out the window after the first 5 minutes with Kollers goal. The Czechs were happy to sit back after that.

 

Well, in recipe form:

Start with a base of 30th best team in the world without our u-23 players.

Now add 2.5 years of development to prodigies Bradley, Adu, Altidore, and Rogers.

Add whatever other talent arises from the u-23's (the list is long)

Now sprinkle that with a ton of depth (something that killed the US in '06)

Then I think you have to like your chances.

Argentina has some crazy good talent coming up, but really I haven't seen any sign that any other country is going to gain that much over the next 2.5 years.

 

I have supreme confidence in Tim Howard, as most here do, but just a quick question for clarification: When we're saying that our goaltending is at semifinal/quarterfinal level, am I correct in assuming that many here believe Tim Howard is among, say, the top 4-7 goalkeepers in the world?

1. Cech
2. Buffon
3. Casillas
4. Van Der Sar
5. Dida
6. Coupet
7. Reina (maybe should be exempt from this list since Spain would arguably be starting Casillas already)
8. Howard???????

Are we assuming that Tim Howard is better than guys like Shay Given, Paul Robinson, Carlo Cudicini (again, maybe exempt because of Buffon), Ricardo (dude from Portugal), Anti Niemmi, Jaaskelainen, Oswaldo Sanchez, Guillermo Ochoa, Thomas Sorensen, Oliver Kahn, Mikael Landreau (maybe exempt because of Coupet) & Abbondanzieri (from Argentina)?

Excellent post. Repped.

 

well Id say something between the current FIFA and Elo rankings. Serious contenders for 2nd round and threaten a quarters berth.

 

You take Donovan & Beasley combined, and they wouldn't be as big as Roberto Carlos's thigh.

 

Goalies--FINAL depth and quality
Defenders----quarterfinals ok quality lots of depth
D-MID-------quarterfinals lots of depth
Attacking MID----second round wc 1 or 2 guys deep none really world class
Forward---- Concafcaf qualifying absolutely no finishers

Coaches---AYSO

 

GK: Tier 1, World class. Timmy is among the top 10 in the world and our backups are very strong.

Defense: Tier 3, 16-32. Perform well under non-elite conditions due to exceptional organization and fitness, but individuals are prone to errors. Deep, but relatively flat talent pool. Rating unlikely to change before the World Cup.

Flank Midfielders: Tier 2, 8-16. Though the rating is hurt by consistency and depth issues, I think most countries around our level (15-40) would kill to have the speed, trickery and work rate that Beasley and Donovan provide when they're on their game. Maintaining this rating into 2010 and beyond will require new talent (Szetela just for example) to step up soon.

Central Midfield: Tier 4, 32+. The young, talented, deep, and completely untested central midfield is the great unknown. If three or four of the guys in contention can stay on their current development curve, 2010 could surpass 2002 as our best World Cup performance. Based on limited exposure, this rating could be Tier 3, if not Tier 2, before the next World Cup.

Forwards: Tier 4, 32+. Even with Dempsey in fine form at the moment, the forward pool for the US has always been weak and is only just now beginning to fill out. Lack of depth is going to continue to be an issue into the future, but the upside of Adu and Altidore is remarkable. As with the central mids, this rating could improve substantially before the world cup.

Overall: Tier 3, with every indication of strong long-term improvement at most positions. We're in the depth improvement phase of our development. Once the depth is there, I think the individual talent level will improve as well. By 2014, this team could be firmly established in Tier 2, on par with teams like Mexico, Portugal, and the Czech Republic.

 

You've got to be kidding, right? This has been beaten up a lot on other threads, but they're are about 10 nations that are clearly above us, and a gaggle of teams after that (I'd say around 30) that are close to being in the same ballpark. While its hard to say they are better than us, its also hard to say we are better than them.

Just for argument.

Did you not see Ghana beat us at WC 2006? They are from Africa, yes? This is not to mention Ivory Coast, Nigeria, and Cameroon. And maybe some others. Didn't we lose to Morocco in the run up?

Uruguay, Columbia, and Paraguay are at least on par from South America.

From Asia. Korea and Australia I think could give us a fairly good run.

And then there is UEFA.

For my money: Tier 1 Teams:
1. Brazil
2. Italy
3. Argentina
4. Germany
5. Spain
6. France
7. Portugal
8. Netherlands
9. England
10. Czech Republic

Next Tier: (28)
From Europe: (15) Sweden, Croatia, Romania, Greece, Poland, Switzerland, Russia, Serbia, Norway, Turkey, Ireland, Demnark, Ukraine, Scotland, Bulgaria.
CONMEBOL: (3) Paraguay, Uruguay, Columbia,
Africa: (6) Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia.
AFC: (2) Australia, Korea
CONCACAF (2) Mexico, United States

That's 38 right there, without throwing in teams like South Africa, Ecuador, Japan, Chile, Finland, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Belgium, Israel, Costa Rica. Maybe this last group is a step behind, but still dangerous.

We are a worthy entrant, but not top tier, along with around 30 other teams.

 

Good list. In WC terms, I'd say:

Tier 1: Favorites for semifinals: Brazil, Italy, France, Germany, and Argentina (with Argentina bottom of this group recently, talking WCs).
Tier 2: Favorites to get out of group-stage.
Tier 3: Might get out of group-stage.
Tier 4: Probably won't get out of group-stage.
Tier 5: Probably won't qualify.

In these terms we're definitely not Tiers 1, 2, or 5. Realistically we can improve to perennial Tier 2 by 2014 (or not). Whether we'll ever become perennial Tier 1 is open to question. (We can get to the semifinals in 2010 or 2014 on a great run, with new blood, but it will be surprising, and f&*#ing exciting).

 

OK, now let's extend that to a position-by-position look.

Goalkeepers: Tier 1. While I'm not going to claim Tim Howard is better than the list of world-class keepers that was mentioned earlier in the thread, I think only Cech, Buffon, Casillas, and possibly Van Der Sar are demonstrably superior to him. Guzan is a solid backup.

Defenders: Tier 4 at present, may upgrade to Tier 3 if Parkhurst works himself into the equation and one or more of of Bornstein/Pearce/Simek/Spector develop well. Neven Subotic is another potential wild card, as an 18-year-old center back already starting regularly in the 2.Bundesliga. Unfortunately, I don't see us reaching Tier 2 in the near future.

Midfielders: Tier 3 if the World Cup were today, but we have a very young midfield. Given the potential in Feilhaber, Bradley, Adu, Edu, Kljestan, and others, I would be shocked if our midfield weren't Tier 2, and a strong Tier 2 at that, by the time the World Cup rolled around. Our flanks are already Tier 2; I'm fairly confident that the central midfield can get there as well, because we really only need 2 or 3 of the many midfield prospects to maintain their present trajectories.

Forwards: Tier 5 today - I don't think any team in the 2006 World Cup, except maybe T&T, had a worse forward pool than our present one. Our best strikers are no more than serviceable international players. This is where the next generation needs to step up. Altidore is a very good prospect; Rolfe appears likely to improve; and to some degree our forward ability depends on whether Dempsey, Donovan, and Adu end up playing forward or midfield. (Currently I'm placing Dempsey at forward and Donovan and Adu in midfield, because that's where they have been playing most recently.) My best guess is Tier 4 in 2010, but we have the potential to be much better than that.

Overall: strong goalkeeping lifts us to Tier 3 at present; I expect us as a team to be in Tier 2 in 2010.

 

You forgot one position--where would you put our coach?

 

Tier 1: Favorites for semifinals: Brazil, Italy, France, Germany, and Argentina (with Argentina bottom of this group recently, talking WCs).
Tier 2: Favorites to get out of group-stage.
Tier 3: Might get out of group-stage.
Tier 4: Probably won't get out of group-stage.
Tier 5: Probably won't qualify.

Using these tiers, my assessment is similar but slightly more pessimistic:

Our current A team
Goalkeeper: 1/2
CBs: 3/4
Outside Bs: 3/4
CMs: 3/4
Outside Mids: 3
Forwards: 5
Coach: 3/4
Strengths: Howard, Donovan, Beasley
This is a team that's 40/60 to get out of group stage.
I'm hoping for Adu and Altidore to get to a 2/3 by 2010, making them our most game changing field players. If the CMs and back 4 can get to a solid 3 by then with improvement or new blood, with a great run we can make the quarters again. I don't know about Bradley's motivational ability, but I doubt it's where it needs to be from the games I've seen. We need a Tier 2 coach, I hope he can be that.

 

Hi.

Please stop trying to turn a perfectly good thread into another flamefest.

Aren't there enough threads for you to bash Bradley already?

 

Hi Tomwilhelm. That really wasn't my intention. We're evaluating positions, and the coach is an important one. We happen to have a team right now that we evaluate any position and strong disagreements are possible, except maybe goalkeeper. I think that's to be expected when we went 3 and out in the last WC. We're trying to maximize how well we can do in 3 years.

 

Coaches are obviously important, but coach is not a position on the team, which is the topic of discussion.

I understand you weren't trying to start trouble, but posts like that tend to find trouble even if they aren't looking for it. I'm just tired of rehashing the Bradley sucks thing over and over again.

I think the problem is that no one here thinks they can do what Beasley or Timmy do... but everyone thinks they can do what Coach Bradley does.

 

Points taken, but I have to disagree about coach not being a position on the team to be evaluated as to level. If he wasn't the most important part of the team, more influential than any player, he'd just be a consultant. Maybe in the future we can choose players by popular vote, and the consultant suggests organization schemes, and we vote on that also. Not to mention subs...

 

My personal opinion is that coaching matters a whole lot less than people make it out to. Sure, there are a few brilliant coaches like Hiddink; there are horribly incompetent coaches like Sampson. But for the most part, competent is competent, and there isn't a whole lot of difference between any two given international coaches as long as both meet that minimal level of competence.

 

Scotland at no. 11? What gives, MacWeenie?

 

Literally?! Why, he must be quite a strong man!

 

Well, Frings lent a hand as well. *rimshot.

Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here all week. The 9 o'clock show is completely different from the 11 o'clock show. Try the veal.