United States v. Suisse (post game) [R]

Sounds about right.

If you check out the highlights at the US Soccer website, you'll see that it was a perfectly weighted ball, but Adu's first touch was a bit heavy. As a result, the ball bounces farther out in front of him than he likes, and his options are limited. The fact that he was at full stretch had more to do with his first touch then the Swiss keeper or the play of the ball.

If you're point is that most American forwards miss this - you're right.
But IMO most starting forwards in top 30 teams should get it.
If Twellman had missed on the same play, most posters on this board would looking for matches to burn him in effigy.

 

Do you know the place in the Rules of the Game where it says this ?

Perhaps a more senior ref can comment, but I was taught that the lines are part of the penalty area so if ANY part of the ball is on the line, the ball is considered to be in the PA.

 

Re: FSC people

I may be nit-picking on your choice of words, but Twellman is VERY athletic. He's just not fast. You give him Beasley's speed, with his current skill and leaping ability and he is an International Class striker.

 

One of these days, Bradley will realize we have more depth at midfield than at forward. And, perhaps even go with a, gasp, new formation that actually fits the US best.

While I'm by no means suggesting we have anything close to the talent of Barcelona, I think their style and formation is what would suit us best.

Essentially, the have a group of attacking midfielders in Messi, Ronaldihno, Deco and now Dos Santos. They compliment these guys with 1 lone forward (Eto before, now Henry) who is not only skilled but also enough of a burner to open up lanes and keep defenders honest. In the attacking third, the midfielders essentially interchange among each other. Sometimes Messi is on the right, sometimes its Ronaldihno. It's the equivalent to Phil Jackson's triangle offense, albeit in the attacking third, where players freely move.

If you look at our talent pool, our best players are really midfielders. Dempsey, Donovan, Beasley, Feilhaber, Adu. We must find a way to get all 5 of these guys on the field at the same time. Throw in a true forward like Altidore (the closest thing we have to Eto and Henry) and you have the makings of the best attacking team the US could muster.

Along those lines, here's what I would propose:

- - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - -Boca - - - - Gooch - - - - - - - - - -

Dolo - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - Pearce

- - - - - - - -- - Bradley/Clark- - - - - -- - - - - - -

Donovan- - - - - - Feilhaber -- - - - - - - -Beasley

- - - - - - - -- - - - Adu- - - - -- - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - -- - - Dempsey/Altidore - - -- - - - -

Not sure what you would call this formation (2-3-3-1-1), (4-5-1) or (5-4-1). Regardless, the point is to have your best defenders and best attacking players on the field.

So you have Boca and Gooch (though Gooch may be overtaken by Parkhurst, Simek, etc) are the 2 central defenders.

Then you have Dolo and Pearce playing the outside but ahead of Boca and Gooch. That is, not having a flat back 4 since that often discourages the outside backs from pushing up in the attack.

In front of Gooch and Boca we have the midfielder destroyer in Bradley/Clark. Either of those 2 (but NOT both) could easily close off the midfield intrusions and link with the midfielders. Bottom line, we do NOT need 2 guys where either Bradley or Clark are good enough to do the job alone.

Next we have Donovan, Feilhaber and Beasley. These 3 guys alone have the work rate to join the attack and also support the defense. They are truly the cogs that will make this whole thing work. If all 3 are doing their jobs right, we will attack with numbers and defend with numbers. Obviously, Donovan and Beaz on the outside, I believe, are no brainers. That is where both are most dangerous. Feilhaber in the middle is also, in my opinion, a no brainer. Especially, this middle where he will neither be required to be primarily a defensive mid or attacking mid, but instead a true central mid that both defends and attacks well.

As attacking mid or withdrawn forward, I have Adu. As the U-20 WC showed, Adu's best position is attacking mid/withdrawn forward. It is crucial that in this position the player not only be able to thread the needle, but also take people on and create his own opportunities. IMHO there is no one else on the roster that can do all these things as well as Adu.

On top, I have Dempsey or Altidore. We cannot go wrong with either, though Altidore is more of the natural forward. In a perfect world, we'd play 3 in the back and put Dempsey and Altidore together. However, until we can develop a stud central defender, we have to settle for 1. Both are capable of taking people on, linking with the midfielders and, more important, finishing.

Bottom line, by loading up the midfield the US could defend with confidence and, more important, attack with confidence. Now if I could only get that US job and finally put my master plan to work.

 

OK, I'll probably get flamed for this, but why wasn't Bradley's goal disallowed for Dempsy, I think it was, being offside? I'd have to go home and watch the replay to tell exactly who the US player was, but when Bradley taps the ball towards goal, a US player is goalside of him and they are both behind the last defender. At first I thought that maybe to be offside the ball has to be PLAYED to you, and clearly Bradly was shooting, not playing the ball to anyone. But the rules don't say that the ball has to be played to you, they simply say it has to be touched.

Now of course the issue could well be: was the US player interfering with the play? As with any "interfering with play" call, its a judgment call. But to me he clearly was interfering with the play, the ball almost touched him - in fact for a second I thought he might accidentally block Bradley's shot! In any event I am surprised that no one, not the commentators, not the US or Swiss news reports, nor any of you knowledgable Bigsoccer posters, have even addressed this issue.

Comments?

 

Dempsey thought so as well...his first motion as he raised his hands to celebrate was to look over to the AR to make sure the flag was down.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not the rule about the keeper touching it. What matters is where Dempsey was when the ball was played toward the goal, right?
Dempsey *was* in an offsides position, but in the judgement of the ref/linesman he didn't interfere with the play. I'd say we are lucky the ball didn't just glance off of him. He would have had not time to get out of the way if it was coming at him.

 

If any part of the ball is touching any part of the line of the penalty area, then it may be handled by the GK. You are correct, the previous poster was wrong.

 

I really enjoyed your post and agree with virtually all of it. The other big plus with this formation is that we have plenty of cover/interchange in the midfield.

I have to point out the obvious weakness here is forward. I have every hope that by the time 2009 rolls around, Altidore is the clear # 1 forward, but he hasn't proven anything yet on the International level. By his play with the U-20's and the Red Bulls, he has certainly shown he has the size, speed and physical attributes to play this role. I am not convinced yet of his first touch and ball skills. And we just don't know how he will adapt to the speed of International play.

If he doesn't pan out, I can't see how we can play this formation with Dempsey (or probably any other forward in the pool). Maybe Ching can do it. Dempsey just doesn't play back-to-goal well enough. We need someone at this lone forward position who can act as an outlet for our D when they are under pressure. I remain skeptical that Dempsey can fill this role. In fact, he may become the odd man out if Adu continues to shine and everyone else is healthy.

 

I agree, I can't see that the keeper touching it is relevant, as you say, what matters is where Dempsey was when the ball was played - at that point the keeper hadn't touched it. Unless perhaps the keeper and Bradley touched it simultaneously? THAT could be the explanation...

(Just to clarify, at the moment Bradley touched the ball, Dempsey was goalside of him, NOT behind him)

Assuming for argument's sake the keeper didn't touch it at the moment it was played, I agree with you 100% that we were lucky the ball didn't glance off Dempsey, but the fact that it almost did means, to me, that he was clearly interfering with play. I guess its moot now, but I'm just surprised no one even raised the issue, not even the Swiss...

 

How about this,

- - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - -Boca - - - - Gooch - - - - - - - - - -

Dolo - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - Pearce

- - - - - - - -- - Bradley/Clark- - - - - -- - - - - - -

-Adu - - - - - Feilhaber -- - - - - - - -Beasley

- - - - - - - -- - - -- - Donovan- - -- - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - -- - - Dempsey/Altidore - - -- - - - -


It's just an idea because Adu looks like he can cross the ball unlike everyone else on the team and Donovan is good as a withdrawn forward.

 

when szeela crosses the ball, dempsey gets the 1st touch into space...dempsey clearly on-side, as was bradley...

dempsey was actually touching the ball to himself...and bradley took it away from him...

 

Switch Donovan and Adu -- Adu has never, to the best of my knowledge, performed at a real high level out wide.

 

As I mentioned, I am referring to the moment Bradley touched the ball/shot at goal. I am not talking about when Szetela crosses the ball.

True, Dempsey didn't touch the ball after Bradley's shot, but that makes no difference. You dont have to touch the ball to be interfering with play. Also even if he was behind the goalkeeper, he could still be interfering with play. The rules dont say "interfering with an opponent's play on the ball." They say "interfering with play."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by m vann View Post
I, for a half second, after the goal was scored, I thought there was a chance Dempsey was offside or interfered with the play. But upon seeing the replay it appeared to me the keeper had touched the ball thus no offiside. Plus, it also appeared to me, that Dempsey was somewhat behind the ball.

I agree here, Dempsey was in an offside position when Bradley touched (shot) the ball, but he wasn't interfering with the Keeper or defenders.

 

It seems like in every action picture ever Freddy is pointing.

This is probably the most crazy Rev biased thing posted on these boards, ever, congratulations because that's saying something.

 

I am sorry I dont have a link but I am almost positive Adu has said he doesnt like playing out wide, he likes playing in the middle. I think he was referring to when he first got transfered to Benfica and coach asked where is he most comfortable on the field.

 

Haven't seen the game yet, got it on tivo, but when you're in europe, a win is a win is a win. Don't matter how, but how many. And all those other coachisms. I'm glad to have the ape off our backs. Sounds like some positives on some of the callups, I'll scope the game this PM.

 

Re: Formidable!

correct me if i'm wrong but didn't we play a 3-5-2 against mexico in the Korea WC? That was basically why they subbed off Hernandez inside the first 15 minutes because it caught them so off guard.

 

He doesn't have to be interfering with the keeper or defenders to be interfering with play - the rules say "interfering with play," they DONT say "interfering with players trying to play the ball."

 

Twellman wouldn't have known to make the run in the first place. If he had, the defender would have beaten him to it.