Edu, Wynne and other (potential) loans abroad

I kept reading on this board how great Edu is. But in the 4-5 times I have seen him play, I have not been very impressed. He was very prone to turning the ball over in those matches that I saw. Did I by chance catch him in his 4-5 bad matches, or was it (turning over) a weak point of his game?

 

He's a holding mid-fielder. Through much of the early season he was able to play that role. With the injury situation--the starting forward being out for most of the second half, and the best attacking player, Ronnie O'brien, out for the season--he's had to play a more attacking role and take more of the offense on his shoulders which really at thise point isn't his game.

 

We also shouldn't rule out the possibility that one or more of the parties, whether it be MoJo, the reporter or whatever scout was sitting in the Toronto box while over to visit Niagra falls with his sweetie and needing to get his club to foot the bill, might be talking out their butt. It's happened before. The shocking truth is sometime people just say stuff without really thinking it through - even, gasp, in soccer.

 

These "feelers" from EPL teams are not for loans but are for training. Exactly what Eddie Johnson did with Man U and various other MLSers have done. Since they won't be paid and won't be playing (with the first team at least) it doesn't have to be done within the transfer window. They'd be back by Christmas would be my guess.

 

I've seen about the same number of games, but I wouldn't characterize him as very prone at turning the ball over. It doesn't happen often in central midfield, where he usually produces a dribble move and finds a teammate when pressured. He does tend to lose the ball often on offensive forays, and he's not as good a shooter as, for example, Clark is. He needs a lot more polish in his attacking game. In the holding/defensive role though, he's always looked above average to good in the games I've seen (especially if you consider his age and experience).

 

I don't think I've ever heard of a starter for a team being loaned out to another. Can anyone tell me of a time this has happened?

 

As has been explained - if a club extends a feeler, then it's likely that a player is looked at as a potential acquisition.

And the problem with that and the English/Scottish clubs are the UK work permit rules.

Anywhere else this problem doesn't exist.

So, it's very likely to be pure training in the UK while anything outside of there has a chance of happening for real.

 

Henrik Larsson... he was at ManU for 3 months and came back in time for the Swedish season... not saying a loan will happen, just saying that it makes no sense is incorrect... of course Larsson plays for an EU nation...

 

The writer clearly doesn't have a grasp of the subtle differences in terms like train and loan in the soccer world.

If you're on-loan, you're not training. You're on the team and able to play. If you're training, you're just doing that. Practicing with the team but not on their books, even temporarily, and unable to play for them.

I'm now pretty sure that this whole thing started because of a misunderstnading of the ways of the soccer world by the writers in Toronto.

Bottom line: Edu and Wynne aren't "playing" for anyone in the off-season.

 

It's happened several times in the history of MLS - Roy Lassiter, Ben Olsen, Jaime Moreno, Brian McBride Jeff Cunningham, Eric Wynalda, Joe-Max Moore and Alexi Lalas (I'm probably forgetting more) all went on loans to European or Latin American teams in the MLS off-season. All of them were starters for their respective MLS teams.

It hasn't happened much in recent years. After Olsen's injury at Forest, teams were more reluctant to loan out starters. That also coincided with the FIFA's implementation of stricter and universal (for winter-fall leagues) transfer windows and later stricter windows for summer leagues like MLS.

The transer windows make it much more difficult for the loans to work for the reasons that have been explained above. For instance, there was talk a few years ago of Landon Donovan being loaned to Portsmouth for the duration of the EPL season. But one of the things that killed the deal was that the MLS transfer window would be closed when the EPL season ended and Landon would have had to have waited till it re-opened in August before he could rejoin his MLS team.

The whole thing is basically a mess and the calendars, transfer windows, injury concerns, etc... make the idea of loans now very difficult for MLS players to pull off in their off-season.

 

Those guys are better off just playing through next season, making the US Olympic squad and impressing there. If they do well there they will get looks most likely by teams outside of England. OTOH, regarding Edu, we have no idea, he may actually qualify for a UK permit. He's probably a first generation American. I think if you have parents from a British Commonwealth territory (Ghana, Jamaica, Nigeria, for example), I believe it's easier to qualify for a permit. I believe that's how Johann Smith qualified for a permit. His parents are Jamaican and worked in England. There are countless examples of players in the Premiership qualifying through "loopholes," i.e. John Obi Mikel, Denilson are 2 young non-EU members who are playing in the BPL.

 

Unless they move on a permanent basis.

Which won't be to England.

As to the training stints, I am all for it but they don't (can't?) last more than two weeks.

Presumably, one can "train" sequentially at several clubs however.

FWIW, given the MLS relationships with a number of prominent Euro clubs and the American ownership (sometimes full, sometimes partial) of a number of clubs, it really wouldn't be a bad idea for a talented prospect to spend two weeks at Chelsea, two weeks at Arsenal, two weeks at Fulham, two weeks at 'Pool, two weeks at Everton.

PS. I am not sure if there are any UEFA limits on a number of clubs a player can visit within a time frame. I recall Clint Mathis trialing with at least 2 clubs when he was a free agent.

PPS. Johan Smith's father had a WP since he had worked in the UK before.

 

if its a loan they can go whenever, they dont have to wait until the transfer window...as it's not a transfer. likewise out of contract players can be signed anytime.

but yeah, wherever they might go theyll still have to comply with whatever variant of "work permit" exists in a particular league/country.

more likely they go somewhere to train with someone but dont end up playing any games with them. That's been not at all uncommon in MLS history.

 

I remember etcheverry's loan to the big club teams in ecuador(emelec), he was there after the 96 cup and i believe also went back there for a different team, Barcelona of ecuador and competed in the copa libertadores with them, taking them to the finals.


97' season was awsome for marco too! Its great becasue i think it keeps them match fit and used to playing. So its a win-win in my mind. Gel'ing with your team after a couple months is what can be sort of a problem, but who cares if your match fit!

 

Free agents can be signed but they can't play until they're registered.

Loaners have to go within the "receiving" side's windows.

 

An injury crisis led ManU to be more than happy to bring in Larsson on a similar loan last season.

But that set of circumstances isn't likely to be repeated, as you note.

 

Not very happy when he left.

 

hm...maybe the rules are different for non-prem clubs?

I suppose I should know this by now.

 

No ... Larrsson went to ManU at the winter break and left when the Swedish window was still open (last day March, 31, as Sweden has a summer calendar and the same windows as MLS).

So, this was a very by-the-book arrangement.

They do have some short-term goalkeeper exemptions that allowed Kasey Keller to play in a couple of games at Sunderland (when he was stuck behind Paul Robinson at Tottenham) a few years ago. Sunderland was ravaged by injuries and KK gave him a couple of solid outings before their regular GK returned.

Then Keller went back to Spurs.

 

Its my understanding that loaned players can be recalled at any time. You don't have to wait for a transfer window.

 

If it's agreed upon in the loan deal, yes.

 

what are you arguing? no one said that Larsson wasn't by the book... what I was saying is that it happened with him and could be the case with Toronto players