Riot Squad Altercation

Says the guy with a join date of Apr 2007. And I don't remember anyone here ever giving a crap about what's going on in other forums, ever. You have to be exaggerating again.
Plus, we put up with countless trolls like you and gino frannbozo, who wish to chime in on things that have already been discussed ad naseum and think they're making a really clever post. I imagine he's sitting at his computer now slapping his knee over the Becks comment. Clever indeed.

 

What exactly did we dole out to them? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Never did LARS threaten Chivas with violence, it has just been vice versa.

Please, mods, close this thread before more ignorant ********s come in and "dole out" more shit to us. We don't flood their forums with complete bullshit.

 

Actually, I would just walk away. Keep it up. Keep adding to your fine fine repertoire youre building here.

 

This thread has the depressed the shit out of me.

My grandparents came from Mexico. I've not been pulled over for driving while brown/black, but members of my family have and I've certainly had my share of remarks.

I also worked at the ACLU for seven years, during which we fought tooth and nail against Proposition 187, which was one the most hateful times this state has ever seen (thanks to that piece of shit Pete Wilson). And that's just about how I feel right now.

I feel very passionately about both my Mexican heritage and the country in which I was born. I know the potential that lies in this country -- both in its constitution and in its populace. And it kills me to see it pissed away so frequently.

That's why I found it was pretty great to be able to be the underdog and root for the US Soccer team. It was and has been one of the few times I get to wave a flag and feel great without thinking about all the policy decisions I disagree with. And for years we su-u-u-ucked -- so it was a nice little oasis from being the economic and political superpower. It's good to feel good about your country.

In the early days of Sams Army, I went to a number of matches in LA--I still have my scarf that says "VAMOS ESTADOS UNIDOS." But standing with US Supporters when we play Mexico, I've certainly heard some racist crap from individuals (and please don't bore me with a bad semiotics lesson. Yes--neither Mexicans, Latinos nor Hispanics are a race.) And I've always spoken up. It usually works with those you can eyeball -- but as we all know too well, you can't legislate against idiocy. Of course that goes for Mexico supporters as well.

I've supported the Galaxy since their first match, but there was never any group like The Riot Squad when I was in LA. I ran into a number of idiots wanting to start a "firm" and "go hard" supporting LA -- morons. But the Riot Squad Player of the Year, the SJ road trips, the Chivas Girls... that's good stuff.

I now know people in the Riot Squad and I've stood with them in San Jose. I have never felt they were a racist group. Never. Nor is there any great affinity in LARS for police brutality. Did I mention where I used to work? It's not like I've built up a loving affection for the LAPD (There are great people working for LAPD -- but as an institution ..oy). It's a great name and a great logo. Full stop. Playing the Mark Furman card plays you right onto the short bus.

I'm not saying I haven't heard unacceptable crap from individuals during matches. Again -- you can't legislate against idiocy. We can all see that from the preceding pages. But as a group, that's not been my experience, at all.

I thought the mariachi band was a great idea. I've bristled at the early Chivas marketing, because it was insulting to the current LA team -- my team -- and to me was breeding division. So I thought bringing in a mariachi and reclaiming some of that identity was brilliant.

But the sombreros did push into caricature. That's both hindsight and simply my opinion. It's also my opinion that it was a misjudgment and not an organized slur. And it is by no means a license for knuckleheads to start shit.

You can bet if the Chivas Front Office had issued a complaint about that display, The Riot Squad would have heard about it. They depend on the Galaxy Front Office to reserve their section, allow their banners, allow drums, etc. How hard would it be for Chivas to organize a few Chivas supporters who were pissed off and felt they had been slurred? Want an apology? I cannot imagine that would have been hard to arrange. Hell, they could have called in Villaraigosa -- and I'm not kidding -- if they felt so slighted. "Antonio -- you know those hosers who boo'd you at Beckham's unveiling? You're in luck! Their racist bastards!"

The lines of communication between LARS and the Galaxy front office are open and clear. But apparently organizing a red carpet entrance and a huge banner were more important to Chivas -- so I guess they weren't that insulted after all.

But that was then.
It is now incumbent upon both organizations -- Chivas and the Galaxy -- to make sure this mayhem does not happen again and especially does not escalate. I've seen strong shows of police force backfire MANY MANY times. But there are ways to arrange crowd control without bringing in the horses and the longsticks. Been on the wrong end of that too often and it's no fun. I still think keeping derbies to midday weekend kickoffs is a good idea.

But families need to feel safe. Casual fans need to feel safe. And supporters need to feel safe.

Again, there's no excuse for violence. None.


Putting my still new and shiny Moderator hat on:

I'm going to close this thread if it keeps on the current path. This is the LA forum. I'm glad other supporters are here to post on this topic, but there's quite a few folks just talking smack without contributing to the discussion.

There's MLS Rivalries, World Rivalries or the forum for whatever club you support for that. Posts will just be deleted, yellow cards issued and forum bans implemented.

The civil liberties supporting fascist at your service.

 

My last post in this lost cause of a thread,
argueing subjective views are only going to inflame and lead to zero agreement. in short this thread has outlived its usefullness.

 

My Last Post

Crimen y Castigo good read on that post.

Unfortunately, I think we will be talking about this again sometime after April of next year. (just my opinion)

 

I second that.

I respectively disagree that closing the thread is a good idea. It's clear who the instigators are, and clear that they would like to provoke more trouble. I think that's important to know.

I also think it's a bit ironic that someone is whining about Stopper's post on the LARS boards being racist - especially when Stopper is Latino. I'll be if he'd seen Stopper say that to his face he wouldn't have purposely "misunderstood" his meaning.

I have only seen links to posts that people are reading racial slurs into but do not in actuality exist, but I have yet to see anyone post a link to a "racist post." I think that is a very important distinction to be made. These people WANT to take offense where none exists, which means they also WANT to fight. Another important distinction.

I guess we should thank those people who violently ripped the scarves off of people's necks and then claim they "make great trophies." I also didn't know that "sub human" was a race.

PS - our season still sucks.... Vive La Lantern Rouge!

 

Crimen, that was a post worth framing. I wish you would cross-post that in the MLS:General thread that is mirroring this topic.

I'm gonna back out of this conversation from now on. But here are my final thoughts on the matter. People can respond to them however they wish.

1) I have been in the Riot Squad for around 4 years. I have heard racist things yelled by some members. Those racist things constitute about .00001% of the things I have heard yelled. Those racist things are usually by drunk newbs. Those Racist things are normally dealt with in a quick manner by the older members. One odd example was a clearly Latino newbie at the Chivas-Superliga game at the Coliseum. He was a young guy who responded to getting hit with some ice by yelling "f-ing w*tb*ck!" at the Chivas fans. He was quickly told to shut the f*** up by the rest of us.

2) I am someone who has taught the subject of racial identity in America at a University level. I also love Mariachi music (check my screen name). I am also a white dude. So while I know the intent of the Riot Squad was to flip off the Chivas FO for claiming to be the team for Mexican-Americans, I can respect that some may have felt that it went too far. My question would be, though - does it go any further than your average "Cinco De Mayo" promotions at your local bar?

3) I have NEVER in my time with LARS, seen or heard of any Riot Squad members actively go looking for supporters of other teams with the intention to A) fight, B) intimidate, or C) for lack of a better word "front". Nor have I ever heard members of the Riot Squad suggest such actions to each other.

4) In addition to #3 - I have yet to hear anyone suggest that the Riot Squad members went looking for Chivas fans after the game. This fact is telling. Chivas fans went looking for Riot Squad members after the game. That is it.

-Adam

 

Re: Plain simple

No, seriously. This is your first week on big soccer. Notice, no one else is surprised.

 

Re: Plain simple

For all those that come up with that brilliant, you call someone a name and you should expect a beating. Sorry, the legal system doesn't work that way. If you give in, and assault someone.... the racist wins. Aren't there any great stories of courage that it takes to stand up and be insulted and not resort to violence?

So the right responses would have been, hey we are decent Chivas fans. We are here, we will support our teams forever, and we don't want to see any of this. MM10 I'm highly disappointed with your rhetoric around here. Weren't you clever once? Anyway, talk about painting with broad strokes....Mirrors anyone?

 

First, I was not whining, I mentioned it. Second, I don't care if he is Latino or not, it is still racist to say that about the Mexican community. Especially when it has been mentioned many times that there is no tolerance in LARS for racist things. Stopper is more than welcome to say it to my face and will continue to think it is racist. I did not "purposely misunderstand," it is in black and white. Calexico gives an example below of Latinos yelling racist things, and it is possible be racist against your own race. I'm also glad to hear that they told that person to STFU. What each supporter's group needs to do is police their own in those situations, clearly it was done by LARS in the situation Calexico posted. I am not here to pick a fight or cause trouble, I am just posting my opinions and the things I have seen. Like I mentioned before, I usually just read posts throughout Big Soccer but when someone makes fun of the events of 9/11, I could not read on without responding to such disrespect. My name was also dragged in by the same person that posted about 9/11, saying that I accused LARS of being racist. Maybe if my SN was not michoacano1 and if I did not show that I am Chivas fan, my posts would be interpreted differently. I for one was not offended by the Mariachi and the sombreros. But, what does not offend one, might offend the other. I will continue to support my Chivas and continue to talk shit against your team and supporters group, as I expect to get the same back, but I will never disrespect anyone beyond that. I want to continue to take my children to Superclasicos and hope it continues to be a "family atmosphere."

 

Wow, this thread has degenerated somewhat down racial lines, that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, but it seems that, a small minority of both sets of fans caused problems at the game.

1) Racist comments by Galaxy fans: These are of course unacceptable, but I'd be surprised if there was more than a few. Here, we have had a case in court this week, where a Leeds player was called a 'useless b*stard' but with the word 'black' in between. The person was arrested within a minute, as there are cameras to identify that kind of behaviour. He was in court today and recieved a suspended 6 month prison sentance, a £2,000 fine and is banned from Elland Road for five years, and all football grounds for two.
This morning two other fans were surprised by Police raids at 6am and were given broadly similar punishments for racist comments, this time aimed at a steward.
It is totally unacceptable, but there obviously needs to be a zero tolerance policy that is enforced. END OF.

2) The actions of Chivas fans outside the stadium was totally unacceptable also. At least the service crews of English clubs fight each other, not steal flags and scarves. Bet that made them feel very manly. Hopefully those cretins can be identified and banned. Race shouldn't be a factor, but in fairness to the Galaxy fans on here, it seems to be largely Chivas fans bringing this up. I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but I fail to see why race is a factor. This issue is about a certain number of especial knobhead fans on both sides, who ruined peoples game. Every club has them, obviously some like Argentinian, Italian and Galatasary (spit) have more than others.

In England it is usually kids or teenagers who have been allowed to go to the games on their own for the first time who start fights and make comments. Usually they either bite off more than they can chew and go home with a black eye, or just face the wrath of their irate parents who have to pick them up from the Police Station. Why the race card has been played in this discussion I don't know.

 

If you take race completely out of this whole entire situation, what you have left is hooliganism at a soccer match.

Hooligans are described by the dictionary as:

-a cruel and brutal fellow
-a tough and aggressive or violent youth

Which fans were cruel? brutal? tough? aggressive? violent?

Answer these questions and you answer who the hooligans were and who need to be reprimanded. It maybe be one or two people from each side. Or whole groups of people. But if you answer these questions decisively, you'll reach an answer.

If a woman calls a man an "a$$hole" and the man decides to kill her, who goes to jail? The woman or the man?

 

Good quote ...


I think as I've stated earlier there is a dark element of people that attempt to pass themselves off as fans' of both teams' only going to these games' to cause trouble. Take that type of simple minded mentality & mix it was drinking before the game, while the game is being played, & after & your left with one word to describe it ... Trouble! This make's it bad for people that actually have no other desire than to go enjoy the game & support their team. I'm not a die hard fan of either side but I must admit I enjoy watching Chivas play as they actually play good quality Football/Soccer. I wasn't at this last game between these two teams' but I was at the game before they last encountered one another & I can tell you this. There were an equal number of trouble makers' from both sides' for that game.


I heard countless racial slurs' being directed at Chivas fans'. Really rude & ignorant ugly words' & terms' being spat out regarding Mexican culture & some of these comments' being made by grown adults' with their own kids' right there to see their parents' act like idiots & then people wonder why so many kids' here in the States' have the issues that they do today. It's bad enough kids' are exposed to so much violence on tv, in movies & on the net but when they see their own parents' acting like mindless savages' it goes to show the ugly side to living in this country.


I do not condone this type of banter from people that try to pass themselves off as fans' for either side. I come from a European background so would be considered White but what really make's me wonder about these people who pass themselves off as Galaxy fans' throw out the racial rants' at Chivas fans' in regards to being Mexican it just goes to show how ignorant this people are. The people I've heard hurling insults' out at Mexican people have all been White which tell's me that they must have come from a European background at some point with their family. That being said to say things like ...(Go back where you belong! Go back to Mexico you @#$backs!) really make's me wonder who these people think they are & where they get off thinking they have the right to say such things as the only real Americans' in this country are the Native Americans'. As for the rest of us regardless if we like to admit it or not we are in reality, uninvited guest to this country or at least are family members' who first came here were.


To be fair I've also heard Chivas fans' throwing racial slurs back at Galaxy fans' as well so the mean street run's both ways! That being said it's not really important who started what, how long it's been going on & the lot. The problem is it continues & only look's to get worse. People have the right to support whatever team they want, nothing wrong with that. I think we all tend to forget from time to time that in order to be respected by others' we must be willing to respect others' in return. There is good to be found in every culture & when it come's down to it. People are people. We must remember when we encounter ignorant idiots' in whaever walk of life it's not something inbred in their culture. It's the person that's the idiot.

 

Monday, you and I are familiar with each other, though we haven't met. So don't take this all personal. But this is the definitive example of a tough-guy internet post made from thousands of miles away.

You think you're going to convince me, an eyewitness, that I didn't see what I saw, and don't know exactly how it happened and why? You're seriously going to line up behind "Someone wearing a similar shirt said something nasty, so me and a bunch of friends threw bottles at the girl standing next to him - that'll teach them"?

So, the people who had bottles thrown at them called the bottle-throwers sub-human, cowardly scum*, and that justfies it after the fact?

By this point, no one is disputing what happened Thursday night, or who was at fault. You're either against it, or you're justifying it. I'm sick of hearing "This sort of thing happens" from people who jack off to Elijah Wood in "Green Street Hooligans." I'm tired of reading "That'll teach you to be a Galaxy fan."

If it makes anyone feel better, it's never going to be the skinhead, or the racist, or the provocateur, who gets bottled in this sort of situation. It is always the innocent bystander or the peacemaker. Criminals and scum take precautions, people not looking for trouble don't.

And you're upset that I'm calling them subhuman cockroaches? Wow, I wasn't previously aware that you were that easily offended, Monday. If anyone's upset though, why not throw a bottle at someone wearing a blue shirt - that'll change my opinion.

 

Quoted for truth! I agree 100%. I AM Native American (Cherokee & Choctaw.) We're in CALIFORNIA - originally MEXICO... hello! These people are ignorant idiots. Unfortunately, they vote and drive on the same freeways we do.

Aside for the degeneration in some of the uglier posts, I think this thread is actually beginning to have a very constructive dialog, which gives me hope.

I'll bet most people in America are completely unaware that there are such strict laws against hate/racial speech in Europe. (One reason why WHAT Materazzi said to Zidane was so important.) I also think most Americans can't possibly imagine those laws being put into force here because of the protections of the First Amendment. Something to think about.

I have also noticed many people using the terms LARS and Galaxy fans. I have no doubt there are ugly, racist fans who support ever team in the league. I have no doubt that there have been Galaxy fans who have shouted ugly, racial slurs. That said, LARS as a group does not tolerate racism (hell, we don't even allow politics on our boards), and like someone said in an earlier post, when it happens, it's usually some drunk newb and it's dealt with by the LARS Elders swiftly - meaning that kind of behavior is NOT TOLERATED within LARS. I cannot speak for all Galaxy fans.

michoancano1 - First I want to say that I do not mean any disrepect with the question I am about to ask you. I just really want to know, that's all. Below is Stopper's quote in it's entirety. I honestly do not understand what in his post is racist. Is it that he mentions a criminal element? Please don't flame me, I'm not trying to bate you, I'm only asking.

Great comment. I hope people like you are horrified when fellow supporters create trouble. I know I am which is why I like LARS - when newbie, hooligan wannabes come into our midst and think that's what we're about, they're very quickly made to understand the opposite. They either comply, or are driven away. Does it always work perfectly? I wish, but we work hard at it, believe me.

I'm glad you weren't offended, and I hope you do continue to talk shit about our team - they sure as hell deserve it this year! WE SUCK.

 

So THAT is the full text of the much-maligned, RACIST-tagged Stopper post from LARS' boards? Jesus Christ.

He doesn't say all or most Mexicans or Mexican soccer fans are troublemkers, he says that a criminal element exists within Mexican soccer supporters. And he's RIGHT. Isn't what happened last week an indicator of that? Aren't the Rose Bowl scenes I recalled in an earlier post an indicator of that? He didn't say or suggest that Mexicans or Mexican-Americans are bad people, he simply said there are some shit-heads among them. Are we to believe there ARE NOT?

Put your racist cards away because I have been to US / Mex games at the Rose Bowl, the Coliseum, Jack Murphy and Jeonju and I've seen trouble at every one -- so don't tell me that NO Mexican fans are looking to mix it up because that's a lie.

 

I highly doubt that the MLS has the ability to identify banned customers. Its very easy to get tickets, short of them having someone's name and picture ID being required (which I would hate) I'm not sure how they would be able to rise to the occasion.

The biggest problem here is its a soft target of sorts. Most trouble makers simply look for a place to cause it, find like minded folks, and either join them or.. more often then not fight them.

I would really hate this to escalate to a level where we need as many camera's as they do in the UK. One thing I’ve always appreciated (now more than ever) is my anonymity, mind you its not because i wear a tin hat, or think that the gov is out to get me. I just honestly like the idea of being able to get lost if I wanted (ack off track).

The best answer is for folks on both sides to remain diciplined, understand how really great we have it and put a stop to these kinds of issues before we are forced.. to have camera's everywhere, fences around the field, and being felt up every time we enter the park.

I hate to say it but I think they need to start... at the very least, patting down suspisous looking characters (like myself) for some strange reason it always makes me feel abit safer <shrug>

 

At most English stadiums, you are being filmed by an average of three cameras at any one time. Enough said.

 

Another thing that frightens me is... If they did cover this in the press would it have the immediate impact of drawing more troublemakers and making families afraid to take their children there? Historically I cannot think of many sports leagues that have ever acted first, instead they tend to remain reactionary following negative PR brought about by fan on fan problems.

 

One cannot be racist against Mexicans because they are a nationality and not a race.

And many of them have European ancestry. Just like us gringos.

 

Has this altercation been largely ignored by the press? I didn't see anything about it on any of the major soccer sites nor in the press (I do not read the LA Times). What is interesting about it being ignored is that the same press will instantly post a hooligan story if it happens in Argentina, England, or Italy.

Another question: Are Legion 1908 considered a hooligan firm in Mexico?

 

Same thing could be said of the American community right?

 

Right!