just saw on CBC news today that a Chilean player admitted seeing a fellow team-mate punch a female police officer to start the fight. so ya, discuss: what do you think the penalties should be? to come to a foreign country and disgrace its land and its peopple like that is pathetic.
I am going to urge caution from all future posters. Keep it civil, keep it related to the topic at hand and stay away from generalization. Did the CBC report state who the player was who is admitting that it was a team mate who started it all?
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070730/chile_team_070730/20070730?hub=TopStories Police showed 'restraint' in soccer clash: report Updated Mon. Jul. 30 2007 4:05 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair says his officers practiced "immense restraint" and acted appropriately during a confrontation with Chilean soccer players. A police report released Monday concludes officers acted accordingly during the clash, which came after Chile lost to Argentina in a heated semi-final match at the FIFA U-20 World Cup earlier this month. "All witnesses reported that the conduct and actions of the officers involved was appropriate, necessary and commendable," Blair told a press conference. "The investigation revealed that my officers intervened at the first sign of trouble, but that members of the Chilean team not only refused to stop their aggressive behaviour, but engaged in conduct that enflamed the situation. Investigators spoke with numerous witnesses, including even security officials, members of the Ontario Soccer Association and the Chilean bus driver. Chilean players had claimed they were clubbed by police as they headed to their bus after a security guard prevented one member of the team from talking to some fans. "The officers involved were punched, kicked, spat upon and kicked in the groin," said Blair. "During the violence, Chilean players dismantled the armrests and footrests of the bus seats. They smashed the windows of the bus to throw these -- and spit at -- the officers below them. "They also threw D-cell batteries at the officers, clothes hangers and cans of deodorant. Four officers were struck by the projectiles thrown." In total, 21 armrests and footrests were damaged on the bus and the windshield was smashed. Repairs are estimated to cost $35,000. Earlier, a Chilean soccer player who was part of the brawl admitted that a teammate punched a female officer. "I don't know who hit her, but yes, someone did hit a female officer," Isaias Peralta, who was tasered by police during the melee, told Chile's El Mercurio newspaper. But Peralta added that his teammate only punched the female officer after they were hit without good reason. Police handcuffed team members, many of them bloodied and screaming, and escorted them back into the dressing room where they were detained for several hours. But none of the players were charged with any crime. Blair said officers decided to release the players in the interest of the tournament. "Under those circumstances, it was decided by the duty inspector -- an appropriate decision, in my opinion -- to exercise discretion not to lay charges," said Blair. "In large measure, to allow the tournament to be completed." Peralta's remarks are the first in which a player from the team has admitted any responsibility in the incident. At the time, Chilean President Michelle Bachelet told local reporters she was dismayed with the use of "unjustified aggression" by police. Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who had just visited Chile a few days prior to the fight, said only that "international soccer matches are hotly contested and often become very emotional." He added that "There are processes in Canada by which the authorities review these kinds of things and I don't intend to comment any further."
In the article just posted above me the player is quoted as saying that somebody hit her after they were hit. Anyway it's still clear as mud. What we need is a timeline of who did what, when. Blair is telling us what the Chileans did, but not what the police did, other than 'exercise restraint.' What's that mean? They didn't release the guard dogs?? They didn't start blasting?? I dunno.
Exactly. Too many questions to make any conclusions from this article. I would even say this post was made to incite some people on here. The story is bad journalism. One line from the boys mouth is quoted in our news papers. What about the rest of the interview? What happened to that? This was made to run in Canadian newspapers and people are buying this. Let the various investigations do their work before some news report is even considered. The news is only interested in one thing. And that is selling their story. I for one am not buying it.
Someone posted this on the V's board http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/07/30/blair-chile.html Toronto police Chief Bill Blair says his officers responded appropriately as they were being assaulted by Chilean soccer players in a brawl after a FIFA Under-20 World Cup match July 19. Officers were punched, kicked, spat on and pelted with batteries and other objects, Blair told a news conference Monday, but they responded professionally, showing restraint and "police conduct of the highest standard." After one officer was punched in the face attempting to break up a conflict, other players streamed off their bus and assaulted officers, who then used force to subdue the crowd, said Blair. None of the officers was seriously hurt, including the woman punched in the face. The incident happened after the Chilean team lost 3-0 to Argentina in a semifinal match in Toronto. Allegations followed that the police used excessive force to break up the conflict, including use of pepper spray and a Taser on some players. Chile's foreign minister filed a formal complaint with Ottawa over what he called "unjustified aggression" by Toronto police. On Monday, Blair provided the results of an inquiry into the force used and stood squarely behind the actions of his officers. He also said he had met with the Chilean consul general to explain the findings. Responding to a media question as to why no charges were laid against the players if officers were assaulted, Blair said police "exercised discretion" in order not to disrupt the tournament. He said the duty inspector consulted with the officers involved and FIFA officials and decided that charges would not be laid. He said it was a "tough call" that he fully supports, but did not think would set a precedent. Blair said an undertaking by the Chilean team to compensate the bus company for damage also played a role in the decision not to lay charges. Damage to the bus is estimated at $35,000. The police force's review included viewing videotapes, interviewing soccer officials, police officers and independent witnesses. "All witnesses reported that the conduct and actions of my officers were appropriate, necessary and commendable," said Blair.
Of course he is. Would there be any other course of action from the Chief? The same cheif who is responsible for authorizing the continuation of salary payment of almost $70,000 by the taxpayers to a convicted criminal. http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_13216.aspx
How did you miss the most crucial part of that whole article guppy? here, I will bold it for you: "All witnesses reported that the conduct and actions of the officers involved was appropriate, necessary and commendable," and FC HRV, way to go off-topic. not only is attacking the credibility of the chief a fallacy in multiple ways, but it has nothing to do with this case.
That's according to Blair. No I didn't miss it actually, I read it with interest. The Chilean fans on the other side of the fence witnessed the incident, even video taped part of it, is he claiming that all those fans reported the conduct of the officers was fantastic?? Did they interview any of them. What about members of the Chilean delegation, did they all report the police were great ... did ANY? ... and players that weren't involved (I assume they all didn't participate) ... aren't they witnesses? There's people on here that witnessed part of it, do they all think the police were great?? Who were these 'independent witnesses.' No Chileans allowed? So ... What I really want are details, that's all, not statements of police solidarity.
"Independant witnesses" are those that have no vested interest in the situation. So no Police or Security, or Chilean fans or reporters. That pretty much leaves the International media who were alongside the Chilean media who were reportedly also roughed up in the account of one Chilean official. Guess they weren't afterall... http://www.tsn.ca/headlines/news_story/?ID=215085 <snip> "The investigation revealed that my officers intervened at the first sign of trouble, but that members of the Chilean team not only refused to stop their aggressive behaviour, they engaged in conduct that inflamed the situation," Blair said The players hurled batteries, coat hangers, and arm and foot rests torn from the team bus, leaving four officers with scratches and bruises, Blair said. Police were punched, spat upon, and kicked in the groin, he added. <snip> "A decision was made by the duty inspector to not lay charges in this case after extensive consultation with the officers that had been assaulted and FIFA officials," he said. Blair said the Chilean consul general had apologized for the conduct of the players. "I recognize the great passion the Chilean people bring to this particular sporting occasion, and the support that they felt for their national team," Blair said. "But the passion they feel for their team - their sense of national pride - does not in any way diminish the fact that in this particular occasion, the conduct of their players fell well below an acceptable standard." FIFA paid for the extensive damage to the bus, Blair said.
What fallacy ??? Its there for you to read in black and white. The police chief is approving the continuing payment of a convicted criminal's salary. A salary that the taxpayers of Toronto are paying. But then again, you can continue to live with your head stuck in the sand. And his credibilty is related to this case. The story makes it appear that he will play solidarity politics at any and all cost.
Yes this is what went through my mind right away. Who are these witnesses? Lots of questions remain. And you are bang on about the police solidarity that Blair seems to ingage in. A much more meaningful, and objective report would be if it was done by the Solicitor Generals office. Everyone knows the Chilean conduct in the bus area was not professional to say the least. And that they had to be contained. I don't question that. What the issue is the force used by the police. And in this report nothing of that was answered. Yes Blair answered in generalities - but not specifics. Was the taser appropriate?? Was it appropriate to have 4,5 or 6 cops on 1 Chilean that possibly started the whole thing? These question must be answered. And its not because the sole focus is on the soccer players and not on Blair boys.
Statements were taken from other witnesses, including event security officials, members of the Ontario Soccer Association, the BMO Field event co-ordinator and the driver of the Chilean bus. http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/241551 He didn't go into many specifics about the sequence of events, but said the trouble started when two people not involved in the game got into a fight. Security guards, then police, tried to intervene, which is when a Chilean player punched a female police officer in the face. Things escalated from there, Blair said. "Chilean players dismantled the armrests and footrests from the bus seats. They smashed the windows of the bus in order to throw these objects at, and spit at, the police officers below. `` They also threw D-cell batteries, clothes hangers and cans of deodorant at the officers. Four officers were struck and injured by various projectiles." In a statement yesterday, Harold Mayne-Nicholls, chair of the Football Federation of Chile, said he was there and "I didn't see any Chilean player hitting any officer except between all the struggling.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/07/31/4381957-sun.html Chilean players started fight: Chief Blair investigation claims officers were assaulted and spat upon during Under-20 soccer fracas By JONATHAN JENKINS, SUN MEDIA The Toronto Sun They kicked us first, and in the groin, too. That's the verdict from Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair, who yesterday issued the results of his investigation into how his officers handled an ugly brawl with Chile's Under-20 soccer team shortly after the players had lost 3-0 to Argentina in a FIFA World Championship semi-final. "The investigation revealed that my officers intervened at the first sign of trouble, but that members of the Chilean team not only refused to stop their aggressive behaviour, they engaged in conduct that inflamed the situation," Blair said. "My officers were punched, kicked, spat on, and kicked in the groin." The Battle of BMO Field on July 19 ended when police used a stun gun and pepper spray to overcome the Chilean team members, who were then detained but ultimately released without charge. They had just swallowed a harsh loss to eventual champions Argentina in a bitterly contested match and were extremely upset with the German referee, who showed them two red cards and seven yellows along the way. They went on to win the tournament's bronze medal and were hailed as national heroes on their return. But Blair said the players' behaviour was anything but heroic, saying they were "very aggressive." "The police officers had to constrain that behaviour and defend themselves." Chilean players smashed the windows of their bus to spit and throw things at police, including arm and seat rests ripped from the interior. They also threw batteries, clothes hangers and deodorant cans, slightly injuring four officers, Blair said. He also confirmed an account in the Chilean media in which one player admitted a teammate had punched a female officer in the face. Chilean reaction to the fight has been sharply critical of Toronto police, with the country's president Michelle Bachelet calling it "unjustified aggression" and Consul-General Ricardo Plaza Duco calling it "brutal." But Blair said Plaza Duco has softened his tone when he last spoke to him. "It was a very respectful conversation and he apologized to me for the conduct of his players," Blair said. "He asked me to consider the sentiment of his nation and their support for their soccer team. I explained to him that it was not the intention of the Toronto police to in any way impugn the actual sentiments of the Chilean people or their support for their team." Plaza Duco did not return a phone message yesterday. Blair said the investigation into the incident involved interviewing all Toronto police officers who were involved as well as event security and BMO field staff, Ontario Soccer Association officials and the bus driver. He also said Chilean team and staff statements were reviewed. The independent witnesses backed up the police officers and said their actions were "appropriate, necessary and commendable," Blair said. The decision not to lay charges against the players was taken that evening by the duty inspector. FIFA agreed to pay the $35,000 in damages to the bus. Eduardo Tapia, minister counsellor for the Chilean embassy in Ottawa, said his government had not yet received official results of the investigation. He said that Chile requested the probe to "better understand" what happened, but insisted that the clash would have no impact on diplomatic ties.
how about ad hominem fallacy, or non-sequitur fallacy, or straw man fallacy, or red herring. take your pick, there are many more I dont care to waste my time listing. The police did not make the Chileans players ruin their bus, or throw D cell batteries at the cops. the cops acted totally within their bounds. A taser is used to stop an aggressive person resisting arrest, it has been proven that the Chilean players were punching police officers in the face and throwing projectiles at them. if that's not aggressive, what is?
Guys, the chances of finding out exactly what happened are extremely small. Chileans are passionate about soccer, while cops sometimes use too much force. Who cares? Just stop arguing about it. Chile started it, the Cops started it, really doesn't matter that much. It happened almost a month ago, so just let it go.
- editorial in yesterday's Globe and Mail. There are still many unanswered questions that Blair's self-serving and entirely predictable statement did not even deal with. Such as why tasers are being used on unarmed people as a matter of routine. Such as why the police suddenly became very shy of laying even a single charge of assault, which would not have affected the tournament at all, because the charge would be dealt with later.
it was not routine, and they were being openly hostile and attacking police officers, they were throwing projectiles, and god knows if they could of had weapons on the bus. if there is even the faintest possibility of bodily harm police can use tasers. because it would have been an even larger international incident. Or would you expect that representatives of a nation being charged with assault and other crimes not be an international incident. there of course was a little nudging from the powers hinting not to lay charges.
I read somewhere that a Chilean journalist called up Vidal and asked him if he punched a female cop in the face, and he said, no, it was guy. Then he cut the interview short. On the other hand, ya, if the police used too much force and then covered it up, then it matters! What he shoulda done was give an organized timeline of events ... and the question is, why didn't he? Maybe Blair's trying to score points with his group, cuz as I recall they weren't that happy with him during their labor troubles cuz he was siding with the mayor on something (my memory is hazy about it).
I got a kick out of the demonstrators in Chile accusing the Canadians of racism - this from one of the most racist countries in South America - try being black, Asian or Native South American and try to find a job in Santiago. How quickly they forget 1973-1990...
You've just smeared the entire population of a country as racist. Don't we have rules against that in this forum?
It isn't a smear of the whole country as racist. It only suggests, without any evidence, that Chileis one of the "most racist" in SA. What does that mean? 100% are racists? or 5% I think reasonable people can place this into context. All of these threads - the Chilean/Police threads, the Portuguese/Canada and similar threads straddle the line and I wish they'd go away because tempers flare and I have seen more reported posts/infractions/poster complaints in the last month than in the previous 15. If you wander onto any of these threads, you best have a thick skin. With two Nats game in the next month and rumours of a third with Brazil, hopefully the focus of this board can go back to Canadian soccer.
"even the faintest possibility"? What nonsense. If that were the case, the use of tasers would truly become everyday routine. I don't even think you know what a taser is. You seem to think it's more benign than being whacked on the head with a billy club. It isn't. The only reason Toronto police were issued tasers was so they wouldn't have to use firearms against gun- or knife-wielding crazies who refused to drop their weapons. They were never intended for use on unarmed persons. Unfortunately, the police regularly misuse tasers for situations that don't warrant them. Amnesty International has documented and criticized the misuse of tasers by Canadian police.
If Chileans are going to go in the street and hold up placards saying Canada racista, with no evidence to support it, they should not get upset when Canadians defend themselves. And I will be the first to say that Canada is not immune to racism. But if Chileans want to go down that road, they should take a very long look at their own history before opening Pandora's box. I'll say it again, show me how many Afro-Chileans and Native Chileans are working in executive positions in Chile or holding down political office. Not to mention the rampant antisemitism. Check out this link: http://www.antisemitism.tau.ac.il/asw2005/chile.htm