This is where I think the U-20's are showing us that it can work with the 4-2-3-1. By the time 2010 comes around we should have quite a few options in this setup. Being unimpressed with the forwards we have at this time (minus Altidore's progress) I think we may be looking at something like this: ----------------------Demspey---------------------- DMB/Convey---------Adu/Feilhaber-----------Donovan ------------Clark-------------------Bradley---------- Bornstien---Demerit/Gooch----Boca------pector/Simek -----------------------Howard----------------------- Players are somewhat interchangable here, but I believe this may be our best option for 2010. Demspey at forward may warrant some criticism but he may be the best option for this cycle at forward until the other guys mature.
True, except in central midfield. Feilhaber, Bradley and Rico are very inexperienced. Maestro is not. Sometimes these boards tend to minimize the unique situations presented by International competitions in general and away hex matches in Central America specificially by pushing untested youths over experienced players. A balance needs to be struck.
If nothing else, we're ahead of where we were last cycle. Look at the follow players who were not just capped, but played in qualifiers when we hadn't clinched during our run-up to 2006: Greg Vanney Kerry Zavagnin Cobi Jones Chris Albright Gregg Berhalter Steve Ralston Santino Quaranta Chris Armas These guys were all decent players, but any player on a hypothetical 2007 23-man roster is a step above these guys. The one - and perhaps, only - area where we are a step behind is striker. Last cycle, we had: - a proven guy in Brian McBride - an emerging guy in Eddie Johnson - a competent, experienced guy in Josh Wolff - a hit-or-miss guy in Brian Ching - an out-of-position Landon Donovan or Damarcus Beasley Nothing amazing, but at least there was potential. As of now, we have: - a decent target striker in Ching who's best quality is linking up with Donovan - a maddening Johnson - a limited Twellman - an out-of-position Donovan or Clint Dempsey Let's get Davies, Cooper and Altidore some time with the starters.
Here is some basic information on him, he is turning 22 next month and has played for the u 20 and U 23 team (scored against brazil). Signed with Sunderland after two years at Clemson until he was jumped outside a bar and fractured his face. he returned to the US last year with Houston. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Holden He essential has been a sub on our squad, but considering we won last year that is not knock on his talent. he has recently broken into the starting lineup. Here is a clip of a goal . . 2:10 into the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxvqMm4ZDFg and 1:15 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhpQnDfd5ls I like a few things about him: his vision and composure, passing and touch is solid. he has also proven to have a very accurate strike from outside and great service. the areas to be evaluated at an international level are speed and defense. i think we would be fine on both counts but I would like to see it in practice.
So, if I've got this right... Our players need more meaningful competition, which they aren't going to get in MLS. We should play a 4-5-1. Conrad deserves to be capped and possibly played, as he's one of our best defenders at the moment. I'm 100% sure I heard all those ideas before, maybe even as recently as 2006, but I just can't remember where.
Predicting the future is always hazardous, and as a result, I tend to avoid it, or at least hedge. So, as far as Jeff Cunningham is concerned, I think the odds of him EVER dressing for the USMNT are somewhere south of 1%. Now Buddle...well, you and I have discussed him. The odds of him dressing for the USMNT are somewhat higher than Cunningham...but it would take one heckuva resurgence. In my view, having seen Edson Buddle play in person a few times, and being awestruck at his combination of size, strength, speed, and finishing potential...well, if he ends his career with just a handful of caps, and never having been on a WC squad, it will be one of the biggest wastes of potential in the history of US soccer.
I would like to make some more global comments about the content of this very interesting thread. In my view, the only real locks for 2010 are Donovan, Bocanegra, Howard, Beasley, Dempsey and Convey. Of course, guys like Feilhaber and Clark have rather higher odds of making the team than, say, Gaven. For some players, especially the European players, their national team future is predicated upon getting good first team action. What happens if Feilhaber is consigned to reserves? Bradley is slated to get a lot of 1st team play, presumably, but what happens if that changes? And then we have Spector. Will he get 25-30 EPL games...or just 10? I do think the rest of the team is in flux, more or less. For example, is it possible to imagine Danny Szetala surpassing Clark? Is it possible to imagine Ching being left behind for Jozy Altidore? Is it possible to imagine Freddy Adu starting for us in SA...and equally possible to imagine him sitting home on his living room couch? I think it is. Four things continue to stand out for me about our pool: We are young. We are fast. We are erratic. We have no truly "great" attacking player I don't have the time to do this, but I think it would quite interesting for someone to do a list of our player pool by age today and by age in 2010. How many likely WC rosterees will be between the ages of 30-32 in 2010? My guess is not many. The advantage of being young, though, is SPEED. Jonathan Bornstein may not be a fully formed player tactically, as Nutmeg rightly points out, but the fact is he marked up one of the most valuable players in the world reasonably comfortably. This speed will come in handy particularly against Mexico, who are engaged in their own youth movement with Guradado and Castillo. We should have the wheels to keep up with them. Of course, the disadvantage of being young is erratic performance, and, from time to time, horrendous mistakes. The horrendous gaffes are less of an issue if your forwards can score when they have their gilt-edged chances...but again, when you're young, the sow's ear can often be made out of silk purse in front of goal. Finally, there's the issue of having a truly "great" attacking player, a consensus superstar. Teams that go deep into the tournament tend to have one or two of these types. Unfortunately, we lack in this department. We have no great midfield general like a Pirlo or Riquelme, no dominating winger like Christiano Ronaldo, and certainly no spectacular scorer like a Rooney. We have some great goalkeeping to go along with a bunch of pretty good, pretty young, pretty inconsistent, pretty fast guys who can look great one day and kinda so-so the next. So, to answer Nutmeg's important question....that's where we are now in the Summer of 2007...and where we're likely to be in 2010 as well.
I agree that we are where we are in mid-2007. Mid-2009 will be different. It will be a combo of older and younger players. I did not think Szetela was ready for prime time until the U-20 WC. I have doubts about Bornstein but he is much better than Convey and Lewis at LB (blast from the past), and seems to be better than Pearce and Spector at LB. Can he be really relied upon defensively? Onyewu will catch up. I expect him to be more than adequate mid-2009. Bocanegra is sub-par and everyone knows it. Parkhurst is a keeper and can take his place, even if he never gets to play in EPL. Demerit and Conrad will continue to develop positively. Gibbs seems to be an emerging O'Brien (not very lucky I guess). Dolo, Simek and Spector instead of Wynne, Moor, and (cough) Beltran. Feilhaber and Bradley need to both be playmakers and d-mids when on the field together. Clark has to continue shooting from outside (maybe potentially at set plays). Beasley, Donovan and Dempsey - the 3 musketeers. Adu the additional midfielder. Then finally, Altidore, Johnson (he won't go away), Davies, and maybe Ferrari (a poor man's Rossi) as forwards. I bet on Howard in mid-2009, with MLS back-ups Reis and Guzan. Coach Bradley in mid-2009?
This is prolly the best thread I have read on BS, and I have been reading it for quite some time, before I decieded to start wasting hours of the day arguing over TT and EJ. And making the odd joke that someone takes far to seriously... But with that said Bornstein presents an interesting dilemma. I am of the opinion that a lot of our problems in the back field stem from him wondering in and out of defense. Which in turn has on occasion cause our CBs to have to play his position as well as there own. But with that being said I do think he has a great deal of potential if he can improve his positional play. But I would like to perhaps see him play in the midfield, or even throw him back up front where he played in college. IF you take into consideration what we have now I dont think he could do any worse. Granted our mids are where why have the most depth and it might be hard for him to get in there but I think we have better options in Spector and Simek(though I would like a left footed player out there for crossing the ball, I think he can play the position quite well and if we play a formation that lets them stay at home then I see no reason why he could not slot in here), OR even moving Boca to the left side if Parkhurst can prove himself as a capable CB at the international level. As far as Sal Zizzo is concerned, I dont believe him. I think it would be fair to say that I have seen him play more than most of the people on BS, because I went to UCSB and had some friends UCLA. I think he has the potential to be a very good club player. He does have talent and I say that begrudgingly but if you rough him up a bit he tends to shy away. Now I do have to admit that I have not seen him play in the past year so perhaps that has changed. though I tend to think he will be a fringe player at best. With Formations I like the 4-5-1 (some may call it a 4-2-3-1) as a the US can not play a 3-5-2 and it does seem to suit our strengths but with that said I think it maks fielhaber the odd man out. I cant see him play the D mid role. If you look at the chart the obvious would to play this --------Clark------Bradley------ Dempsey------LD-------Beasley/Convey And I do not want to start the N word war but I think given the opertunity BB is going to play his son and Clark over Feilhaber in the DM roles. I like where the US is at, I just hope BB can dispell my doubts in him. I would also love to see Gibbs and O'Brien come back from injury, but that might be asking too much. But if I had to pick the team right now it would one of these two line ups -------------Howard Dolo-----Parkhurst-----Conrad----Boca --------Clark-------Feilhaber------ Dempsey-----LD---------DMB -------------Ching Though I doubt that would ever happen so in the land of reality -------------Howard Dolo-----Boca----Parkhurst---Specter --------Clark-------Feilhaber------ Dempsey-----LD---------DMB -------------Ching OR just for fun with a sweeper ----------Howard ------------Boca Dolo----Parkhurst---Specter --------Clark-------Feilhaber------ Dempsey-----LD---------DMB -------------Ching And that is my story and I am sticking to it. Oh and one more thing Keep an eye out for Eric Avila out of UCSB he played with the U17s I want to say, I think he could be the dark horse for the nats in the future
I use the following depth chart to help analyze where players stand. Note that players can appear in multiple positions. (For example, I rank Donovan #1 and Dempsey #2 in each of CMid, RMid and Fwd. That's not to say that I would pair them as CMids. Today, I would start Donovan as a RMid and Dempsey as a Fwd.) I bolded my 23 man roster selections in their positions of (my) choice as of today. I'm assuming everyone would order his chart differently, but putting your own together can help sort things out in your own mind and show who you think needs to beat out whom to make the roster at any given time: Keeper Howard Hahnemann Guzan Keller Reis Seitz CBack Bocanegra Conrad Onyewu DeMerit Parkhurst Gibbs Spector Sturgis Boswell RBack Cherundolo Hejduk Spector Simek Wynne LBack Bornstein Spector Bocanegra Pearce Gibbs CMid Donovan Dempsey Feilhaber Clark Bradley Mastroeni Adu Beckerman Edu Szetela RMid Donovan Dempsey Olsen Kljestan Zizzo LMid Beasley Convey Mapp Adu Nguyen Rogers Fwd Donovan Dempsey Ching Johnson Altidore Twellman Cooper Rolfe Davies Ferrari Hill Smith
That's fair. I would love to see someone step up and take both of their spots because frankly those would be two very good players. Spector is a pretty good defender, but I still believe his long-term future is in the middle. He's cursed with decent attacking skills and the versatility to play multiple positions, which is why he's platooned all over the back line for club and country. I don't think he has the quickness to be a great 1v1 defender out wide, but I wasn't sure Sanneh did, either. As for Dolo on the right, I thought he was pretty good in 2006 defensively. I can't think of one opportunity coming in the World Cup because he was beaten or broken down defensively, but I may be blocking something out. He's still the best attacking fullback we have. I seriously think an upgrade to Dolo means we'd have a defender who could compete for a starting job with a top level club in one of the world's best leagues. If that player surfaces, I'd be thrilled.
Just something to add to the mix. I was thinking about how good our potential midfield is looking and then i compared it to 2006. from 2006, Reyna, O'Brien, Mastro, Olsen (most likely) will not be around for 2010. Yet, I can easily see Convey (2006) not making 2010. If that were to happen it would say something about the upcoming talent (Feilhaber, Bradley, Adu, Clark, Rogers, even Edu, etc.). Let's hope enough continue to grow.
Where are we now? With all the improvement we have made one thing seems still true, despite [result]tonights U-20 improbable win against Uruguay.[/result] The US is still reliant on big time goal keeping to be competitive. When our goal keepers don't perform well we struggle unlike many other teams that can compensate for that. We are certainly improved in many aspects of the game but we need our keepers to play amazing. It woudl be nice to get to a point where that wasn't a must but we are not there yet.
Are you new to BigSoccer? That result you posted could piss some people off. If you can, delete it. See Italy, Germany, Argentina, Holland, Brazil, and Spain for starters. Most of the best teams in the world don't field slouches between the pipes.
What I think we've learned through the 3 major tournaments thus far is that 3 of our best players heading forward to 2010 play the same position & getting them all on the field at the same time will be a challenge. Donovan, Dempsey, and Adu all are at their best in freelancing, attacking midfield roles -- with, thus, limited defensive responsibilities. Adding in Feilhaber at CM only makes this more difficult, because he's primarily an offensive-minded player as well (though more 2-way capable than the first three). To get them all on the field at the same time, I would see a 4-4-1-1 as a possiblity (and most likely given our coaching staff's embrace of the basic 4-4-4-2): Insert Striker here Dempsey Adu ----- Feilhaber -----Donovan Clark Pick your back Four Or you could try a 3-5-2 with 2 DMids: Pseudo-world class Striker Dempsey Adu ----- Feilhaber ----- Donovan Clark -----Bradley (Edu?) Back Three Either way, the back line is going to need to be composed of stay-at-home types, pretty much eliminating Bornstein from the starting eleven. The other big losers here would be Beasley and Convey. But I think Adu will eclipse them on the left. All good teams have quality players riding the bench. You could try a 5-3-2 with 2 wingbacks to get Beasley on at LWB (Cherundolo or Spector could play RWB). But that eliminates the DMid & would make the central defense overly vulnerable unless Benny develops a killer instinct on defense.
I don't believe that a 3 man back line will work for us, especially for international play. We need 4 at the back with a 2-way or defensive mid in front of the 2 central defenders. As for your assessment of the best playing players being Adu-Dempsey-Donovan, why do all 3 need to be on the field together? Dempsey tends to be a great sub or a starter that needs to be subbed out after awhile. Donovan has shown that he can be affective on the right. Adu seems to be best in the middle. Therefore: Starting: ---------striker---- ----------Adu----- Beasley---------Donovan --------Feilhaber----- ---------Clark-------- 4-man back line Sub: Dempsey for Adu, Donovan, Beasley or the striker depending on where we need the most impact. Of course if Beas comes out, Adu moves over to the left. This line-up allows you to have attacking wing-defenders and plenty of midfield support.
Don't remember which WC game, but Dolo committed a foul very early in the 2nd half - maybe Czech Republic? The resulting free kick ended up a goal, IIRC. I thought he was weak and not in good form at the World Cup and I know I'm in a lonely position, but I hope we can do better at the next one. The problem with these Euro players is that, no matter how good they are, their time with the national team is limited because of their club duty. They seem to take years to integrate into the team, and even when they do, there is a lack of flow with the MLS players. It's not fair, but IMO that's the way it is. This summer has been an exception and great because it has allowed a couple of Euro guys extended tournament time where they can make an initial place for themselves. Hopefully the future flow of the game when Feilhaber comes back will be better than when Reyna returned.
I don't see that midfield holding up defensively, and it's not like we've got a world-class defense to cover for them. I agree with the fact that it will be hard to play 3 in the back against world class competition, and while I'm usually decent with lineups, I've missed it twice on this one.
I'll give this another go..... but I'll assume Gibbs gets a full recovery as that really helps us in the back. (is that cheating?) ---------------------Altidore--------------Dempsey------------------------ ---------------------Adu-----------------Donovan------------------------ ----------------------Feilhaber----------Bradley--------------------------- Spector---------------------------------------------------------------Dolo -------------------Gibbs------------------Gooch-------------------------- --------------------------------Howard-----------------------------------
That was the March, 06 Germany friendly in Dortmund, where the subsequent Sweini's free-kick ended up in the back of the net after Kasey went the other way. He got beat - shoved out of the way by Nedved - which resulted in a cross that Grygera headed over from about 7 yards. He was behind the play on the 2nd goal (don't recall why) but Eddie Pope was sort of marking the crosser before Onyewu's ill fated clearance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfry2-EGaYI
He'd pushed up too soon on the attack.just like he did on Ghana's first goal.Apparently he thought we were still playing Barbados. Dolo had a fair-to-poor WC for mine.