Come on, seriously? Never? You've never seen it? Have you ever paid attention to the back and forth between clubs/players/countries for friendlies? It happens all the time. Would you feel better about it if Ronaldinho and Kaká had lied and claimed an injury like a lot of clubs do to keep players form International duty? And to say fatigue is not a factor is to forget that they're playing a sport.
The other thing to factor in is their performance in 2006. Kaká especially, he always gives 100%. But he was dead, he had nothing left in the tank in 2006. These guys need rest. Juan himself said it and he's in Copa America right now - he said the tournament should be every four years and that it cannot be the year after the World Cup. For all those who think it's fine every two years, keep in mind you're sacrificing good soccer and the ability to be well-prepared for the World Cup in favor of 6 extra games every 2 years.
I thought they did take the whole team the last cup, when they beat up Mexico like 4-0, I think Adriano even scored a goal if I remember correctly. Maybe I'm trippin.
Adriano was a backup fighting for a starting spot at the time and the other guys you mentioned were all rested as was the starting defense (Juan and Luisão went instead of Lúcio and Roque Jr. - the first choice duo at the time). Our line-up was basically the second 11 plus guys fighting for a spot on the World Cup squad.
The season is over, no excuse. A European player would die to represent his country in a big tournament like this. I said they never were concerned with fatigue. Name me one Euro player who excused not to play for his country cause of fatigue? You only see it with south american player but who can blame them when they get a pass for it. I rather they blame it on injury cause at least they'd safe face but to make it so obvious that they don't wanna play cause they want rest is shameful. No excuse. Your logic is flawed. ******** fatigue if that means playing for my country. You gotta have that pride, if you don't then you don't deserve to wear the shirt. These Brazilians stars think they can dectate when to play for their country. My fav player Ronaldo once committed the same mistake and i critisized him for it but even he has apologized after that saying he'll never ask for rest again. There is no excusing Kaka and Ronaldinho. No excuse. I hope Robinho take this team and win Copa so then he' becomes the MAN for Brazil and they should give him #10. screw these guys who asked for rest. No country pride whatsover, screw them and shame on those who support their decision.
They had 3 month or so to recover after the long season they had with their respective club. No excuse. Shame, just shame. SHAMEFUL that some are supporing these guys. I feel like throwing up.
What 3 months??? And what your rant above conveniently ignores is that the Euro is every 4 years. I have no doubt that players would be less inclined to take the tournament off if it were less frequent - that was the whole point. You can complain all you want, I wish they would suck it up and play too. But sooner or later you have to deal with reality as well and the reality is that in order for these guys to play consistently well they need more rest than they currently get. Ask any kinesiologist/physio/trainer whatever. I, for one, will always trade Copa America for World Cup if necessary, and sometimes it is.
Ha !!! He only "apologized" because he saw what Adriano did and got scared of losing his starting spot.
Main difference is that teams actually have to qualifiy for the Euros. So they can't even try to have it every 2 years or so. I would love to see the Copa America every 4 years only.
Yeppo 2nd behind Mexico and we face Chile on Saturday!! I dont see another repeat of a 3-0 win though!! The QF's are the stage where if a game ends in a tie they go straight to pk's!!
Give Ronaldinho and Kaka a break; they play non-stop and also have to carry Barca and Milan on their backs. Ronnie came off the Champions League finals and the World Cup to a team missing Messi and Eto'o for much of the year, but almost got them to the title. Kaka did the same, carrying Milan through the Champion's League. Both had to function as BOTH playmakers and scorers, ALL YEAR. That's alot, and I understand why they need a break. That being said, Brazil is supposed to be DEEP, with a talent pool of capable of regenerating itself. So what if they're not here? Someone else is supposed to step up, a la Ronaldinho in 1999 or Adriano in 2004. What worries me more is that's not happening. Robinho doesn't count because everyone already knows he's a stud. My frustration lies with Dunga- his three D-Mid system will boringly win games, but is not providing a platfrom for anyone to flow or break out. I felt sorely ripped off watching the Ecuador game... I'm not sure what Dunga's personnel plan is either. The best the team looked was in the second half against Mexico with Anderson and Robinho. As for Vagner Love, I'm a big fan, but understand that IF YOU ARE BRAZIL's #9 and don't score in ten games, YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING. I worry because Dunga's system doesn't seem capable of breaking down Copa America defenses, LET ALONE tight European 4-5-1 defenses. At this point, all I want to see is a goal scored from open play by someone other than Robinho. Is that too much to ask?
Is sobis injured? he is a lot better then love and he would certainly add more pace to the team. Dunga's system is terrible as well. I don't get it. All they need is g.silva and josue as dms and the other 2 players in midfeild should be attacking players, with robinho dropping back. Mineiro is terrible, love is terrible, alex is terrible. Let anderson and diego both play at the same time. It will offer support to robinho and it will create more goals.
Diego and Anderson can't mark at all. 2 DMs is just not enough behind these 2 guys plus Robinho and Love. It just isn't. The only way this would work (if at all) is if these 6 guys plus the full backs were good enough to dominate posession with good passing. Needless to say, they aren't good enough.
Yeah, there's a big difference between 2 CMs/DMs + Kaká and 2 CMs/DMs + Diego. I'd love to see our coach try a system with two pontas and only three central mids, and slightly more defensive full-backs (not defensive-minded necessarily, but defensively solid, such as Maicon and Alves, not Cicinho). But not with Diego. If only we had time... if only, if only... We could try a 3-5-2 with Diego, try more versatile midfields... I'm getting tired of this 2 DMs/2OMs line-up that everyone has figured out and can contain effectively. EDIT: The truth is that there's some longing in me for that classic Brazilian 4-2-4... pontas who can hold the ball indefinitely (Garrincha) or help in midfield (Zagallo), versatile midfielders who are more than just defenders (Didi, Falcão for a modern example)... ok, I'll stop before I turn this into a completely different thread.
Well the best thing for us now is that we have our 3 toughest teams Argentina, Paraguay and Mexico in the other half of the knockout rounds to tear each other to pieces!! One of my top fears is though I love to see pk shootouts, the last thing I want in this Copa is for Brazil to get into one......I'm quite sure Doni wouldn't save one pk and while Helton has played in a big shootout(though that was 7 yrs ago and came out the loser)I wouldn't be too comfortable with him in a shootout as well!! Hopefully Dingbat has us practicing pks and this would be my top 5 players in a shootout.......Robinho, Diego, G.Silva, Elano, Juan(in that order)
Can't say that the Futebol Gods are not with us ... Mexico, Paraguay, Argentina all on the other bracket. Making it possible for this horrible group of players to actually make it to the final. Although I am not really counting on it ...
I was very surprised at how badly Diego has been playing, watching Werder for most of the season he doesn't even seem like the same player. I think he is feeling the weight of responsability since everyone was expecting him to be the star of the midfield. Dungas first mistake was in calling up the players for this tournament, it was wrong to relly on completly inexperienced players for such an important position as a creative midfielder. And that has clearly shown to be our weakest link. I for one think Diego and Anderson would feel alot more comfortable if another experienced midfielder like Alex was in the team to carry most of the responsability.
Anderson and Robinho have good workrate and Anderson from what I seen is good at retain possesion and holding the ball. We badly need some offense on the team and playing diego with anderson might provide it. Josue has impress me. He is a good passer and solid at defending but he need to get bigger.
Anderson needs to be healthy for me to see what he can do. This is not a good showing for him. But he reminds me of Ronaldinho. Robinho has a good work rate, but he is never a threat for stealing balls and putting real pressure on players.
Hmm. Ronaldo only apologized after realizing his starting spot was in jeopardy. That's the consequence of that decision. Kaka and Ronaldinho Gaucho faced the same thing. But I don't blame them. They've been playing pretty non-stop. What happens if they don't get a break, is that their bodies start to break-down from the wear and tear of the season, travel, and international duty. Then you're left with a player that isn't as good as he once was/could be, if he's even available at all (injured). It happens pretty often... if the player follows up with poor team performances, it's very bad for them personally. So these players make loads of money but it comes at a price & sacrificing the body is a big part of it. They have to take care of themselves... it's better for everyone that they do and unfortunately that means not always taking the decision the fans want, in playing all the time. This isn't just a football phenomenon. I've seen this start to creep up with basketball in the NBA. Several USA players have complained about being worn down after international duty - especially over the summer. Some players just aren't as effective and when the end of the season comes, you can see it in their eyes just how exhausted they are... from the 82 game season through the playoffs, then with internationals tacked on. They need a break. NBA though is different... since they don't need FIBA. The sports are punishing at those levels.
I'm going on the record to predict that 2 of the 4 QF's will go to pk's(Uru-Ven & Par-Mex) And I hear that the Conmebol is pissed at the US for sending a "weak team" If they should be pissed at anyone it should be us for sending a "B minus" team!!