Tu Predicción de La Copa America 2007

Discussion in 'Copa América Centenario 2016' started by JacopeX, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. italchacao

    italchacao New Member

    Mar 18, 2002
    Austin TX
    ya se te olvido el mundial? ese no fue en estados unidos
     
  2. Visca...

    Visca... Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    ATL
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    ding! ding! ding!
     
  3. alianza 4 life

    alianza 4 life New Member

    Jul 26, 2006
    hackensack,nj
    miren para mi el ranking americano es este

    brasil
    argentina
    paraguay
    usa
    mexico
    uruguay
    ecuador
    colombia
    peru
    chile
    venezuela
    costarica
    bolivia
    otros de concacrab
     
  4. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Peru over Chile? We have beaten you in the last matches we have played in all categories, U17-U20-Adult!

    This is more like it...

    Argentina
    Brazil
    Paraguay
    USA
    Mexico
    Uruguay
    Ecuador
    Colombia
    Chile
    Peru
    Cost Rica
    Bolivia
    Venezuela

    ...otros de concacrab.
     
  5. parismatch

    parismatch Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Mexico City
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Quite frankly I think we should talk about tiers rather than strict rankings. The top tier is obviously occupied by Brasil and Argentina and then we could debate where to locate the rest. Now, if we still want to "order" the teams in a ranking I honestly don't think you can put Mexico in fifth place. In fact, Mexico keeps a winning record against every single country in the Continent except Brasil and Argentina so it shouldn't be ranked any lower than third.
     
  6. alianza 4 life

    alianza 4 life New Member

    Jul 26, 2006
    hackensack,nj
    i know is really hard to admit that the us is better then mexico,i understand you guys, for example it was hard for peru to face that ecuador was better now we admit it they made it to the world cup 2 times in a roww and we didnt
    Now mexico got to the second round in the last world cup(thats 1 for mexico)
    the us got to quaterfinals in 2002 which mexico never did(one for the US)
    the us wont the last 2 gold cups(one for the US)
    the US won more friendly games(one for the US)
    mexico vs us
    1 3


    conclusion the US is more then mexico
     
  7. parismatch

    parismatch Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Mexico City
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Now wait a second. Let us do the right accounting here. Mexico has reached twice the quarterfinals in the WC (2 for Mexico, 1 for the US). Mexico has won 4 Gold Cup titles (the same as the US, so both countries are even). Mexico has reached twice the Cup America final (2 for Mexico, none for the Us). Mexico has won the Confederation Cup (1 for Mexico, none for the US). The US won more friendly games? False, check the record (Again, Mex 1, US 0). So the score is pretty much: Mex 7 US 2.

    I won't deny that they have sort of "dominated" Mexico lately and that they are improving very quickly. It is also true that they won the Gold Cup this year, and that entitles them to say that they are currently the best in the region. That doesn't make them overall a better team than Mexico. The best proof of what I am saying is precisely this Copa América. And please don't come with the argument that they brought their "B" team because Mexico did the same thing (Mexico is playing with only 5 of the players that went to the Gold Cup).

    And again, if the discussion is about the ranking of the Natl teams of the Continent the best way to proceed is to check their record against each other. Check it and you'll see where Mexico stands.

    Saludos!
     
  8. PARS

    PARS Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 3, 2007
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I must say it is really hard to lose against the US. Considering that they don't really play better, it is not a constructive style, but in their defense it has worked for them, at least against Mexico, especially recently. And altho hard, I am happy for US soccer, hopefully it will draw more and more attention here.

    But to conclude that USA is (better is what i assume you meant) is silly, it would be like me concluding that Mexico is better than Brazil because since 2000 the results show this
    Mexico 5 wins
    Brazil 1 win
    ties 2

    Honestly if Brazil and Mexico played 20 times Brazil would probably take 13 or 15 of those matches, and if Mexico and the US do the same, I can guarantee Mexico would win more than 10 of those 20. And more impotantly they would do it playing, not waiting for the opponent to make a mistake.

    Your "statistics" need some checks, the US has won more games recently but not historically, also look at the venues recently.

    The US has not beaten Mexico in Mexico, ever, to my knowledge. Mexico has beaten the US in the US half the time when it is a WC qualifier match. I estimate that something like 3 games out of the last 19 have been played in Mexico, the others mostly in the US with maybe 1 or 2 in neutral territories. The US has won more of these last ~20 matches, but again mostly in the US, never in Mexico. Also, outside of playing Mexico, they don't play very well, good cup in 2002, but other than that bad to very bad performances.

    /p
     
  9. Zinha87

    Zinha87 New Member

    Mar 14, 2007

    Y se te olido que son los 'malos dias', esa es se combino el exeso de confianza y tuvimos un mal dia, y te puedo poner ejemplos compadre, recuerdas cuando Argentina perdio 5-0 con Colombia?,, bueno pues ese fue un mal dia para los 'Ches', y no por eso colombia es mejor, recuerdas, cuando USA, elimino a Colombia de el Mundial?, bueno ese fue un mal dia para los colombianos, y no por eso USA es mejor, recuerdas cuando el Dynamo vencio 2-0, a Pachuca, y que Pachuca aca en Mexico, lo resolvio con un contundente 5-2, recuerdad cuando Corea, elimino a Italia en un mundial?, este fue un mal dia para Italia, y no por eso Corea es mejor,

    Y desafortunadamente a nosotros nos toco un mal dia contra USA, y a partir de ahi, sudamericanos y Gringos an usado eso, como burlas y decir que son mejores que nosotros y quien sabe que tantas patrañas.

    Como dije, piensen con la cabeza, y no con el higado compañeros.

    USA, no sera ningun 'Gigante', hasta que sea capaz de barrer con todos en donde sea, y no solo en USA, asi que como dije, Mexico cada ves esta mas cerca de vencer a USA, aya
     
  10. italchacao

    italchacao New Member

    Mar 18, 2002
    Austin TX
    yes, I know it's hard to admit it. cuando juegan en mexico gana mexico, cuando juegan en usa gana usa y cuando salen de esos dos paises vuelve a ganar usa con el mismo resultado. Si fue una mala noche para argentina porque fue solamente una vez que colombia se los hizo, no dos ni tres sino una por lo tanto fue una mala noche e igual los demas equipos que nombras. insistes con el ya casi casi les ganamos, pero eso no existe, o ganas o pierdes, hasta puedes empatar, pero el casi casi les ganamos eso no existe. no estoy poniendo a mexico por debajo de los equipos de sudamerica porque si tienen buen equipo, pero contra usa ya son muchos los malos dias no crees?
     
  11. PARS

    PARS Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 3, 2007
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Si ya son muchos dias malos, lo mas triste es que no juegan bonito, siempre esperan a que el de enfrente cometa un error. Esto se vio mas que nunca contra Argentina cuando al ir perdiendo 3-1 aun esperaban a los Argentinos, ridiculo. Pero contra nosotros (ese juego horrendo) les ha funcionado.

    Pero no siempre que jugamos en EUA ganan ellos. Segun los datos de los ultimos 19 juegos EUA ha ganado 10, Mexico 6, repartiendo el resto. Sin embargo de esos juegos solo 3 han sido en Mexico (ninguno ganado por EUA) 14 en EUA y 2 en un lugar neutro.

    Alguien que sabe el minimo de aritmetica y con aun menos logica, podria concluir que Mexico ha gando en EUA.
     
  12. TuAvuela

    TuAvuela New Member

    Jun 30, 2007
    California, Peru

    Pero la gente no juega pues GUEY:cool:
     
  13. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    You present some excellent points, I must admit. But if you're trying to directly compare two teams--in this case the US and Mexico--that is what you indeed should do: compare the two. Though you should use the Confeds Cup, WC performances and all the other stuff to back up your point, they should not be your main argument.

    For instance, we--Chile--have beaten Peru in most levels the last year and a half or so, however, they have a tendency to play really well vs. Argentina (I am too lazy to look up stats). What I am trying to say if they're good against Argentina, does that mean they're better than Chile (despite the fact we've consistently beaten them this past year and a half or so) ?

    Furthermore, if one is to compare the US and Mexico, the 02 WC game and this year's GC final have to be amongst the most relevant matches to be considered in the study/research. After all, the WC is the ultimate venue where one would like to beat his or her most hated opponent, no? The same goes with the GC (considering that it's the US's and Mexico's zone competition).

    Saludos!

    Metro
     
  14. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    7 de 8 no está mal (esperaba más de Colombia la verdad)
     
  15. El_tri321mex

    El_tri321mex Member

    Oct 20, 2006
    berkeley
    I actually got all right including positions in grup tables for group B, Group C which will more likely end like that .
    I actually got it right :) damn im good
     
  16. parismatch

    parismatch Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Mexico City
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I think what u say speaks directly to my point. All what I said about the Confeds Cup, WC performances and all the other stuff was precisely to answer someone who was talking about that. But my main point is that u should compare both teams head to head (not only US-Mexico, but all pair of countries to get a good ranking). And that is where it is clearer that Mexico is better than the US. The problem is that US fans like to count only the last 10 matches because that gives them a better record. Some Mexican fans do the same thing with Mex-Brazil matches and claim that Mexico is a better team because it has a 6-2-2 record. We all know that is bullshit: there is no doubt Brazil is better than Mexico. But the same is true with Mex-US. The fact that they hold a better record against us in the last ten games does not mean they are a better team. Check the whole record and you will see what I mean.

    BTW Im glad to have a civilized conversation with a BS member :). It is not always easy...
     
  17. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    When looking at the "better" team...it will always be fair to look at the recent records. Teams improve, and a national team today, is not what it was 10 years ago. Look at Venezuela and Ecuador -two teams that are showing better football than they did 10 years ago. Other teams decline. Should the 2 WCs that Uruguay have won in the 1930 and 1950 hold weight to measure how good a team they are today?? No. There is a difference between who is a better team now, and who is better historically. Both are very different. I will, however, try to not get into the "who is the better team now" argument since it is full of opinion and controversy for so many different points can be brought up to defend or support any argument in this debacle of fan vs. fan!!

    In the end, the whole sandbox, "My dad can beat up your dad..." scene comes to mind.



    .
     
  18. drunkguy10

    drunkguy10 El Sancho

    Dec 26, 2006
    No idea
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Guys, USA will probably continue to win gold cups, because they are always played in the U.S. even in 2002, when it was co hosted by Mexico. In United States they hate Mexicans and even more, they hate losing. And concacaf and Fifa want to increase the sport in the u.s. This explains why the usa team always gets preferencial treatment. They know that Mexico, win or lose, they will always have the fans support, but they u.s. its in a very shaky territory. They are everyone's bytches outside of concacaf, and they can't afford to let them loose, specially not against Mexico.
     
  19. alianza 4 life

    alianza 4 life New Member

    Jul 26, 2006
    hackensack,nj





    you guys only talk about history we are talking about the present we could say peru is better then the us because we won more games agains them and made it farther in a world cup however i know thats not true the us is way better now, the us is better then mexico and all the other countries in america besides brasil and argentina and probably paraguay
     
  20. alianza 4 life

    alianza 4 life New Member

    Jul 26, 2006
    hackensack,nj
    another one that doesnt get my point i know that mexico has a much better soccer history and stats but as a right now the present ,2007 idk how to explain it better the us is more then mexico please get it guys just atleast admit that you are in the same level
     
  21. parismatch

    parismatch Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Mexico City
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    That is why I said it is better to talk about tiers than strict rankings. Even though what Ive seen in Copa America and the last WC makes me think twice about it, I am ready to admit that under the top tier (Brazil and Argentina), Mexico and the US could be in the same tier (along with others like Paraguay and Chile for example).

    But to answer your point: I am not talking about history. This is about trying to find out who is better in this moment with very limited information. In a probabilistic world, such as ours, information coming from a few matches is not good enough to reach any reasonable conclusion. That is taught in the most basic Stats course. And that is why I don't think Mexican fans can say that Mexico is better than Brazil NOW just because of Mexico's favorable record (6-2-2) in the last 10 matches. That is simply too little information. The same holds for Mex-US. The most recent matches have been won by the US, but the question is who would win more games on average (that is, who would win more games if they were to play 100 consecutive games for example). I think the best information we have to answer that question can only come from a bigger sample (what you call history, but in fact you don't need to go 30 years back to get a good sample). And when you do that you get a very different picture than the one that is given by only considering the last 10 games.
     
  22. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    You mean the US that went back home after the first round of la Copa America with 0 points and a -6 Goal differential?
     
  23. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    I find it extremely interesting that Mexico faces Paraguay in the next round that they've faced on two prior occasions shortly before the start of la Copa America.

    This would be the tie-breaker, and after two friendlies both teams will at least have an idea of what they bring to the table.

    Penalties?
     
  24. mcnaulty21

    mcnaulty21 Member

    Feb 6, 2007
    Wisconsin
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope, we're talking about the A-squad that took out Meixco twice this year, once in the Gold Cup final
     
  25. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Oh that's right the A Squad.

    Yeah, those guys were missed.

    In the end not bringing the A Squad or at least some remnants of that team to an international tournament, is a lame excuse in not being able to perform or wanting to take it seriously.

    The USSF is entirely to blame in all of this.

    In the end the record shows that the U.S. has faltered once again when playing outside of the regional safety net known as Concacaf.

    Next time the USSF decides in not wanting to send a semi-mixed experienced team, they should decline, and save it for friendlies.
     

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