National Anthem at HDC

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by Bleacherbutt, Jun 8, 2003.

  1. Stilger

    Stilger Member

    Nov 7, 2002
    Orange County
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    isaac101,

    To some of us, respect for the flag is more important than respect for the cross (or any such symbol). I don't have a problem with the guy personally, or his singing, hell I might even like his music if given the opportunity to try it, but I hated his version of the anthem.

    My kids know to be silent and respectful when the anthem is playing, his version was so bad they couldn't recognize it, told me he wasn't singing the anthem and went back to playing with their toys. I could only shrug. ;)

    I hope he is never "invited" back, but yes I have heard worse.
     
  2. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I missed the part where they said that was Vinx (who I saw open for Sting at the Capital Centre when I was a teen but had more or less forgotten) so I had no idea who it was -- but I enjoyed his rendition so much I didn't even notice his head was covered. Nice job, and a nice touch by MLS not to have it sung by some record company's crap pop artist of the week.
     
  3. isaac101

    isaac101 New Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Bethesda, MD
    As Stilger says:

    This is fine. I have no qualms with anyone liking or disliking anyone's artisitic performances. Everyone has different tastes, and that is fantastic.

    My comments were directed at those individuals who took offense to Vinx's headgear and his non-removal of it during the national anthem, as well as to those questioning the selection of Vinx as a performer because he was not a 'big name'. I find those comments to be guided by ignorance.

    Perhaps, Vinx simply did not feel that what he was wearing could be considered head gear. I'll give an example....during American football games (pointyball), we often see athletes wearing skull caps underneath their helmets. These athletes never remove their skull caps during the national anthem. Does that mean that they deserve the anger and bile that is being served on this thread?
    I think not. Perhaps they are simply wearing a piece of clothing that is not really a piece of headgear, and is not really subjected to commonly accepted guidelines of national anthem respect.

    Perhaps, there is a cultural or religious reason that people have not considered that would explain what Vinx did.

    Perhaps, people are over reacting to this.

    Perhaps I am too open-minded about this whole topic. As a son of a Vietnam vet, and a person with dozens of friends in the military right now, I find nothing wrong with what Vinx did. It never crossed my mind as a sign of disrespect.

    And now, some more about Vinx, and selected bits about his background, obtained from his website:
    http://www.vinx.com/history.php3

    "So… the journey starts in 1976, when Vinx attended Kansas State University on a track scholarship. In 1977, hate nearly took away Vinx’s athletic career and his life when racists burned down his house, along with the home of another black family living in his Kansas City suburb. Vinx was severely burnt by the fire. He overcame his injuries and three years later made the world’s second longest leap in the triple jump. This qualified Vinx for the 1980 Moscow Olympics. When President Jimmy Carter called for an Olympic boycott that year, Vinx’s athletic goals were put on hold."

    "When Vinx’s Olympic dream was deferred, he turned his back on track, but after two years returned as an assistant coach for the women’s track team at the University of Texas. In Texas, Vinx rediscovered his Olympic ambitions and began working toward the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. After an injury at the trials took him out of the running for the ’84 Olympics, Vinx stayed in Los Angeles and began working as a fitness trainer for the rich and famous. His clients included Stevie Wonder, George Hamilton and Marisa Tomei."

    "In 1990, Sting and Miles Copeland signed Vinx to Pangaea/I.R.S. Records. Following Vinx’s performance on Sting’s Soul Cages CD, Vinx recorded his first release (Rooms In My Fatha’s House) for Pangaea. The album featured guest performances from Sheryl Crow, Sting, Herbie Hancock, Taj Mahal, Branford Marsalis, Roscoe Lee Brown and Mother’s Finest. Vinx toured for 13 months with Sting’s "Soul Cages" tour as the solo opening act and the percussionist/background vocalist. The tour ended with a Carnegie Hall taping of MTV Unplugged with Sting. Vinx’s "While The City Sleeps" was used in the opening dance sequence of the prime time TV show In Living Color."

    "Vinx’s song "There I Go Again" was chosen for the highest rated episode of the hit TV series Northern Exposure. The network received so many calls about the song that it was chosen for an album release of Northern Exposure’s most requested music."
     
  4. AvidSinger

    AvidSinger New Member

    Sep 6, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Before Revs games in Foxboro, there's never a shortage of teenaged Christina Aguilera wannabes who are so busy putting all these flourishes and runs in the song that it isn't even recognizeable anymore.

    It's like they say about Hemingway -- only when you know the rules backward and forward can you start breaking them.
     
  5. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    And if they're Kute like the one who butchered the lyrics before the Revs/Fire match, no one even cares about that.
     
  7. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to admit, having been trained to remove my hat for the flag or anthem, I was at first a little offended by Vynx wearing a do rag. BUT, his performance was so obviously respectful and heart felt, I had to conclude he wasn't wearing the do rag as a matter of disrespect or defiance, so maybe I just shouldn't judge.

    Yeah, he took some musical liberties, and yeah, I thought the tempo was a little to slow, but that is all a matter of style and taste. But I think there is no question the guy sang from the heart and was respectful.
     
  8. AvidSinger

    AvidSinger New Member

    Sep 6, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Tell me about it. It never ceases to amuse me how many of these young singers genuinely think they're being creative when they don't even have basic understanding of music.
     
  9. BallStateMiddie

    BallStateMiddie New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Nashvegas
    Re: Re: National Anthem at HDC

    [rant]It sure seems to me that his celebrity status is not by any means fact, which means that those who were disappointed with his lack of A-list status were stating their personal opinion, as were you. I think he should have taken off the rag, but hey, that's a personal opinion. So what you do, is you come in here spouting words like ignorance and bile, when people were just giving their effing opinion. Wow, ignorance, huh? Hi, Pot? Yeah, this is the kettle. You're black.
    Now, those opinions may or may not be right, but it's not like either one of those opinions is even completely baseless. The guy might have toured with Sting, but who hasn't? I think I even toured with Sting for a little bit in the 90's. And I'm sure the guy didn't go out there thinking, "What can I do to piss off those crazy Big Soccer nazi's?", but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed, and (God forbid), even comment on that disappointment. Yeah, we're talking about civil liberties here. He's got every right to disappoint me and the other guys here, and I've got every right to express that disappointment. So pisoff. [/rant]
     
  10. CrewToon

    CrewToon Member

    Jun 13, 1999
    Greenbrier Farm
    This is true.
     
  11. CrewToon

    CrewToon Member

    Jun 13, 1999
    Greenbrier Farm
    No, that makes him a Geordie. :D
     
  12. CrewToon

    CrewToon Member

    Jun 13, 1999
    Greenbrier Farm
  13. jeffd

    jeffd Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    taintsville
    Vinx rules, if he had played his djembe, you would have been in tears.
     
  14. isaac101

    isaac101 New Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Bethesda, MD
    Re: Re: Re: National Anthem at HDC

    Focusing only on the head gear question, and addressing the eloquent passage by BallStateMiddie, who writes:

    I never claim that I have the TRUTH about anything. I'm addressing comments by some on this thread that led me to believe that some might have a misinformed opinion of Vinx and his head gear. I offered possibilities for consideration, and expressed concern about the fervor that some people questioned Vinx's actions/patriotism.

    People, even you, are entitled to opinions that I (or others) might not agree with. But when people offer opinions that border on absurd, blatently false, or hint of racism, then I feel it necessary to share information (if available to me) or my opinions that can help those people better understand the situation.

    If after reading that information, people (like you) continue to go ahead and have the same opinions, well, that is their right. So go ahead and rant away about how your view of the world is correct. Continue to offer your opinions about how those that look different, dress different, and think differently from you are in the wrong.

    And please be so kind as to inform me why it is, in you opinion, that Vinx decided to keep his head gear on during his performance. I'd very much like to hear your take on why it is "more than nice" for this one performer to conform to your thoughts on this subject. I'm sure that you have considered, at the very least, the possibilities that I have offered in an earlier post, and have come to conclude that I am in the wrong.

    So, go fill up your sippy cup, get out your crayons, and compose your response. I eagerly await your insight and wisdom on this topic.
     
  15. BallStateMiddie

    BallStateMiddie New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Nashvegas
    Re: Re: Re: Re: National Anthem at HDC

    Wow, Syracuse is growing them thick, aren't they? Yeah, you didn't claim you had the truth, you just claimed that other peoples' opinions were ignorant. Now that just makes me LMFAO. And now you're bringing out the race card. I'm actually a little surprised it took this long.
    Did they teach to read at the 'Cuse? What I said was, my opinion was that I was disappointed that he had the rag on. Gee, Wally, I guess I could be wrong...but you won't be the one to convince me. You know, I thought I was wrong once before, but I was mistaken.
    Well gee, Wally, I guess he thought it looked nice. And hey, I'd have to agree with him. It looks pretty nice. But is it appropriate? Well, Beav, I guess everybody has to decide that for himself. Gosh, Wally, how'd you get so smart?
    I particularly enjoyed this part. It really makes me wish you enough of an argument to make this worth my time.
     
  16. NEKSoccer

    NEKSoccer Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Long Island, NY
    Look, it could've been Roseanne singing the anthem. I only saw a little bit of the anthem on Saturday - and what I saw did not seem to me like anything other than what other artists had done with the anthem. Now Rosanne's version was TOTALLY unacceptable!
     
  17. Pyro

    Pyro Member

    Apr 18, 2000
    Fulton River District
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought it was great.

    You see we are a country of many peoples.

    Welcome to the New Soccer Nation fool!
     
  18. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes. i was AT the game where Roseanne sang the anthem. that was beyond anyone's version of "the pale."

    and after hearing vinx's version live at the game, i saw the replay on video on sunday (having taped the game), and enjoyed it just as much the 2nd go 'round. well done.
     
  19. isaac101

    isaac101 New Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Bethesda, MD
    Excellent! BallStateMiddie is so worked up that he has resorted to slamming my undergradute insitution.

    As per request, I'll try to sum up some of the arguments here. Let's start with this post:
    Based on this, I'm getting the following:
    BSM Claim (or opinion if you prefer: BSM is disappointed with Vinx and the fact that he wore some form of head gear during a performance of the National Anthem.
    Reasoning: Not real sure on this. BSM, be a chum, and give us insight into your mind. Why is it that Vinx is such a bad person? Is it because his nonremoval of head gear is showing disrespect (or lack of respect) for the flag?

    I offered the following claim: Vinx is not intentionally showing disrespect to the flag during the National Anthem during his performance.

    Reason 1: The head gear that Vinx wore does not resemble what is traditionally removed during the National Anthem. It was not a hat, cap, or military piece of headgear. Just saying that ALL headgear needs to be removed out of respect is unrealistic, because where would the line be drawn? Would men have to remove toupees?
    Reason 2: Perhaps there is some cultural, religious, or other reason that Vinx has chosen to wear his head gear and not remove it. Unfamiliarity with the head gear by observers is not a reason to expect, or assume, that the wearer should remove it during the national anthem.
    Reason 3: Vinx gave a very serious, and probably heartfelt, performance. People might not have liked the performance, but I don't think really anyone can say that Vinx meant disrespect with his interpretation of the National Anthem.
    Reason 4: Vinx is performing the national anthem, and thereby is accorded some freedom in his actions during the national anthem that are appropriate. For example, traditionally, people are supposed to stand at attention, with their right hand over their heart, during the national anthem. However, performers of the national anthem have always been provided leeway in these mannerisms. A performer offering a moving interpretation of the national anthem shouldn't be expected to remain totally still while performing such an inspirational song.
    Reason 5 (and this one is just pure speculation on my part): Vinx is a former United States Olympic athlete. He probably has some level of respect for the national anthem, the flag, and traditions associated with both of them.

    Hope that is clear enough for everyone. Give it your best shot BSM. Let us all know why I'm such an ignorant jerk that lacks arguments. Take all night, as I'm going to head off to do other things now.
     
  20. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, buy why was he wearing a babushka?
     
  21. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FYI, people wearing military headgear do not remove it when the national anthem is played. They salute the flag.
    I agree with you here. While Vinx wasn't wearing traditional African headwear, his do-rag does have the color patterns one would typically see in African headwear. It's been my experience that Africans (and African-american activists) do not take off such headwear in public, just as Arabs and Orthodox Jews do not remove there headwear in public.
     
  22. norfcath

    norfcath New Member

    Aug 17, 2000
    Philadelphia
    Several posters have said that they enjoyed the rendition because the artist didn't take too many liberties with it. Question: Why the hell take ANY liberties with it? The national anthem was not meant to be used as a vehicle for individual interpretation. When you listen to "My Old Kentucky Home" prior to the running of the Kentucky Derby, do you hear the band jazzing it up? It would never happen.
    If you insist on having stylized versions, have the artist sing "God Bless America" or "America the Beautiful" instead, both of which lend themselves better to improvisation.
     
  23. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless you require that the National Anthem always be played by a computer-generated MP3 file, (and even then a human has to decide what key signature to use), there will ALWAYS be interpretation. It is impossible for any human being to reproduce acoustical music without what you have called "interpretation." Besides, you care to cite us to a source for your observation about what the National Anthem was or was not intended to be used for? Or did you just pull that one out of your ..... imagination.
     
  24. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
  25. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    I probably shouldn't post when I've been drinking, but here goes:

    Those of you who are getting worked up about the headgear are waaaaay too uptight. It's just a friggin' song. We've got one, so has every other country in the world. Maybe he had the do-rag on for religious reasons. Maybe he was having a bad hair day. Either way, don't act like you're any more American than the rest of us because you take your hat off during the anthem.
     

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