Wynalda's comments tonight [R]

About 2 weeks ago Brian CHing wrote a blog for the local newspaper talking about how it gets so aggravating to listen to our broadcasting sometimes he finds himself pressing mute to be able to even watch the games. I'm pretty sure he meant this ******. The stuff that comes out of Wynalda's mouth makes W. Bush and O'Reilly seems like genuises.Honestly who wants to be reminded that you played every single game. Noone really wants to hear how much you hate goalies, and how its "A Forward Thing". Even Tommy Smyth told him " Oh your not gonna start with that Fw Df thing are you?". These games could easily be stomached if you just cut out Wynalda. Tommy Smyth is the man, annd Rob Stone means well calling the action, but we could all do without the dumb facts he puts in at times. Someone please fire Wynalda. I preferred Cobi Jones, Ramos, and Lalas back when he was playing anyway.

 

Wynalda is very annoying.

 

Well, playing in an over 30 league, I have done what Cooper did quite a few times. Misplay the ball and dive for the call. Once in a while you get it. Cooper owes Hall a beer at the airport! Can't blame Wynalda for calling it like it is. The play was pretty much a dive. Hall was a bit out of position to make the call. For as much experience as Hall has, he really is not very impressive as a ref. Wasn't he the best we had at one time?

 

Go back and watch the tape.

Wynalda initially said it should not have been a penalty b/c Cooper couldn't have gotten to the ball.

Then Smyth pointed out that a foul in the box is a penalty whether or not Cooper had a play on the ball.

Then Wynalda called it a dive. Wynalda doesn't "call it like it is." He simply spouts off based on his gut reaction, then he modifies his stance based on replays (and when somebody challenges him). He's a hothead....sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. He was wrong to focus on whether or not Cooper had a play on the ball.



(For the record, I'd say it was a dive too.)

 

Well, Wynalda might have been wrong, I don't remember the comments in detail, but there is a concept of something not being a penalty even if it technically is a penalty. There are plenty of "fouls" in the box that won't get called a penalty just because it doesn't feel like a legit goal oppurtunity avoided. That's not how it is written in the books, but there is a sense in some leagues, games, what-have-you that not every foul in the box is a penalty. Basically meaning a foul that isn't obviously related to a goal maybe has to be a bit harder than what they'd call in midfield. Obviously, if they blow the whistle and it was in the box it's a penalty. Then again, this is even flexible because officials will also try to give a free-kick oppurtunity if a weaker foul is dubiously in-or-out of the box. It's hard to get a sense of that in the MLS though, because the officiating is so inconsistant.

It was a dive, shouldn't have been a penalty... Wynalda was right. What's the phrase? "I don't care how you get there as long as you end up at the right place?"

 

Best. Post. Ever.

 

I haven't had the pleasure of seeing the video of it (was in the stands), but it really appeared that Cooper threw himself at Pickens and dropped like a stone. I want to see the video, but it looked awfully suspect from my vantage point.

 

No dispute, as far as I'm concerned.

What I find fault with is the idiotic Wynalda commentary about why or why not it should not be a penalty. For a broadcast that seems to be all about educating fans to "the beautiful game" the sequence of Wynalda's logic was laughable.

No. He wasn't. And I quote:

Wynalda: We don't need to see the replay just yet to know that, Kenny Cooper, this ball gets away from him. And once this ball gets through, here's a really good look at it...Watch the second touch. One [Cooper touches right], Two [ball away and over endline], that the ball's gone. That's not a penalty kick!

Wynalda: From that angle, that's a great way of looking at it because Brian Hall is gonna see that little contact, but that ball's gone.

Smyth: I'm sorry. It's a foul in the box. If it's a foul in the box it's a penalty kick whether the ball is gone or not!


Again, I think it was a dive and should not have been a penalty (though, for once, I don't fault Brian Hall....I thought it was a foul from his angle). But Wynalda says some awfully idiotic stuff, considering his standing as a former player.

I don't mind Wynalda and generally find him to be mildly entertaining. That doesn't make him right, though. And I think some of the cockamamie stuff he throws out there actually does a disservice to folks who might be new to the game.

Clearly, this is one example.

 

The league is always playing a weird balance of:

-selling the league to non-fans
-educating non-fans
-appealing to current fans
-staying genuine to the rules, nature of the game, etc.

But it's also biased. The moment Wynalda makes a mistake he gets ripped... But Malin (sp?) got a thread on here a couple weeks ago asking for him to be brought into the booth. Yet in one of the Champions League games he called he said "away goals count double." I don't really care, I understood what he meant, but if Wynalda said that, there'd be three threads calling him an idiot, because "it's NOT double, blah blah blah."

At some point you just gotta let people call games, not worried about "Well, how's a non-fan going to think of this?" or "Does this sound stupid to educated fans?" or whathaveyou.

I like Wynalda well enough. He's an idiot, but a likable one. I do think in general he knows the rules, what he's often saying are how the rules are actually enforced, how players think of the rules, etc. The only rules I don't think he understands exactly are offsides rules, but these have been fiddled with... and honestly, how many people understand them exactly?

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

 

--Using Wynalda's flawed logic, even if Cooper had been hacked viciously, it wouldn't have been a penalty because he couldn't have gotten to the ball.

--Another thing Wynalda said was that Blanco would find it very difficult to adapt to MLS because the speed of play was so much faster than in Mexico.

Well, it's also faster than the speed of play in Argentina, yet Guille (at 34) was the best player on the field in the Chivas-Crew game--but why let that get in the way of Eric's blowhard opinions?

--And the jab that Drew Moor's anger at his teammates was actually due to his own lack of skill rather than the fact that nobody was showing for him when they desperately needed to hang onto the ball?

I'm not usually a big Wynalda basher, but he was at his absolute worst last night.

 

this is an instance where i actually like the 3-man booth.

for the Pickens foul of Cooper it was nice to have the comments of Wynalda and Smyth bouncing off of eachother. neither of them were all that coherent in the moment, but both were offering something.

had it just been Waldo and Stone (or Waldo and DOB), it would have been a dull and lame moment.

with more "soccer-knowledgeable" guys in the booth, you get some decent discussion and almost analysis of plays like a PK call.

it ain't pretty, but i think it does help to promote the idea that the game has a lot of little points that are worth discussing/arguing with someone else. now, i do think the commentating crew that ESPN2 puts up there could usually do a better job, but i actually like some of the things that Stone/Wynalda/Smyth did as a group of commentators last night.

mistakes will always be made (like stone referring to Toja as "Roja") and opinions will always be biased opinions that not everyone will like, but overall i'm starting to enjoy the way that Wynalda and Smyth work with/against eachother as dual color commentators.

the same could have been said about Wynalda/Arena during the US games that they were in the booth together with a PBP guy, but clearly Smyth has more commentating experience than Arena, so he does a "better" job in that role.

 

I would think that many circumstances, attacker vs defender in the penalty box, where an attacker plays the ball ahead, but out of his reach, ends up with the attacker flopping. At the moment the ball is played out of reach, the attacker can either concede a goal kick or take a chance and get a call out of the ref, so the risk reward favors flopping. At the same moment, the defender either gains possession by the goal kick so he pulls back on his slide or the defender can continue to slide his legs through the attacker to give him a penalty shot. The calculation in the situation where the attacker has nudged the ball too far is that the attacker SHOULD flop and the defender SHOULD NOT foul. Thus in this situation we should expect no PK and a goal kick instead. This does not eliminate the possibility that the defender makes a stupid decision, and if it is obvious enough, a PK is still warranted. But I think both Wynalda's snap decision "(paraphrased) A ball nudged out of reach of the attacker does not warrant a PK" and his follow up "(paraphased) The attacker dived" are both consistent generally.

 

I missed the first half, but saw the replay, but I don't really care whether Wynalda called it right, or is biased towards forwards, or whatever. I used to think Wynalda was a muppet ("Kasey Keller is the best goalkeeper in the world"), but he's alright - he's passionate, knowledgeable, and has some personality, which is what you want in an announcer, even if they make a stupid comment or two per game. I'm growing to like those three in the booth. The Thursday night games are the only ones I get to watch, and I've found that with those three announcers I don't have to endure them, and that they actually make it a more pleasant experience. I have stopped caring how Joe Sportsfan or Pierre Eurosnob perceives it, and am happy I get to watch soccer every week and listen to three guys who can talk about the game semi-intelligently.

 

Cooper pushed the ball too long, then dove when he realized he wasn't going to get it. That is not a penalty and that is pretty much what Wynalda said. Pickens was stupid for getting in a position where it could even look like a foul. You guys are really stretching for things to get your panties in a bunch about every week. If it's not the attendance, it's the commentators. If it's not the commentators, it's the camera angles. If its not the camera angles, it's Allen Hopkins' body language. Just mute the crap or don't watch it if it's so horrible.

 

those were fair comments. although i don't think i agree with "the attacker dived" in this instance.

i disagree with Wynalda's snap decision that the ball was nudged "out of reach".

i'm glad Smyth and Wynalda were both there to discuss it.

and i can see why the penalty was called.

i can also see why some others might not agree with that opinion.

 

i generally agree with the overall tone of your post, but ...

if you can't take a soccer discussion board being used to discuss soccer, than don't read it.

although, i see your point that a lot of the discussion here is not really about "soccer", per se.

i can agree with your "mute" suggestion (although we'd still have to put up with the poor camera direction and shot calling) but if we decided not to watch (as you suggest), or not to read BS, what kind of fans would we be?

 

Sheesh, this discussion again? They WANT us ranting about them, they NEED us ranting about them---that's part of their job.

Like Jack Nicholson says, "You WANT me on that wall...."

I loved the "Spinal Tap" reference! Go Eric, Go Stoner.

 

i do admit that Disney (since they've got to have them) is getting much better with their cheesy side-bits during MLS match broadcasts:

"Spinal Tap Toja" on 5/17 was way better than "Famous Freds" on 4/7.

 

I like the entire broadcast package. Any announcer has their warts. Wynalda is opinionated. And sometimes his opinion will be either obviously wrong or rub you the wrong way. But I'd rather have someone in the booth who spouts off on any number of topics than just sits there politely. Wynalda treats these games as if they are meaningful and treats MLS as if it is a serious league. He doesn't try to teach the audience basic rules or concepts. He presumes his audience is educated and then he gives you his view as a former player at a high level. Doesn't mean he's always right. I can count dozens of times I've disagreed with his take - especially when it comes to front office or corporate type issues (that based on my own personal experiences in how businesses are actually run - something I doubt Wynalda has any real insight on). But what he says is often interesting. MLS needs that type of edge to it - even if it is provocative or hostile at times. I absolutely love Tommy. I think he is the best one of the three. And I think Rob is second best. But I wouldn't boot Wynalda. It is clear he loves the game and he does add to the broadcasts.

Also, it ain't as easy as it looks to announce a game. It is LIVE TV.

 

Amen brother.

 

Let me get this straight - Wynalda said that it's not a PK if the ball was going out of touch, and Cooper had no chance of getting the ball? That's the issue?

Wow.

Wynalda was right. Not in my mind about the facts -- I thought that Cooper could have retrieved the ball -- but about the call.