Take heed to my warning. Our Defense.

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Wormburnner120, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. BroonAleMagpie

    BroonAleMagpie New Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Eh, I don't think it's panicking to point out that our defense is weak. We've got one full-time defenders on a roster of 26 players, and one of those four is still recovering from off-season surgery.

    Erpen is at best highly erratic, prone to high-risk defensive plays that are either brilliant or disasterous (and often caution-worthy dangerous), which are necessary because he is unable to keep position or (apparently) communicate effectively with his teammates.

    Boswell is solid. He's clearly our best overall defender, despite his occasional slip-up, and I wish we had one or two more Boswellian players on the roster.

    Namoff is a good utility man. He can play defense; he can play midfield; he can even (in a pinch) play wing. But he doesn't *excel* at any of them. He's a strong, capable player. But I'd like to have one more dyed-in-the-mud defender besides the ones we have.

    I love Wilson. He's not tall, but he's strong; he's got some speed, and he plays well on the flanks. But who knows what he'll be up to after so long away?

    The three-man backline requires our D-mids to stop up the middle thoroughly, which they've been having trouble doing, and either makes us weak on the flanks or ties or wing midfielders back doing defensive duty. I've never liked this formation, and I doubt I ever will.

    No, not *panicking*, but I'd like to see us try and do something to shore up the defense. However, with Payne saying he doesn't anticipate any new signings until the summer, I don't have my hopes up.
     
  2. GWAIHIR

    GWAIHIR New Member

    Aug 30, 2006
    Under Your Skin
    We should at least switch up the formation to allow 4 defenders in the back for 10 minutes and see how it works.
     
  3. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    I trumpeted him out of college, but he reallly only works in a four man backline. Also, he's not very fast and doesn't have the best touch. Plus, he'd be an SI, and we could definitely find someone better for that designation. Personally, I'd rather have John or Leonard, as they know the system and can play at different spots in the backline and midfield.
     
  4. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    We have a long history of playing defenders without speed and with susceptible touch. Names like Clint Peay, Arnold Cruz, and yes, George Gelnovatch come to mind...

    The SI thing is a killer, though.
     
  5. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    True that.

    That said, I'd still give him a trial just to see what he has to offer the team. At worst, he sucks and doesn't get a contract offer. At best, he proves that Nicol was wrong. Players with a chip on their shoulder have worked for DC before (see Walker, Jamil and Moreno, Jaime), and he could be decent defensive depth if he has something to prove.
     
  6. This problem is 2 pronged

    1. Defensive mids havent played well. BC is just not in form right now. In a 352, D Mids need to sometimes pinch back as a second center back. If they're having a hard time with their game, sometimes the flow between their offensive and defensive responsibilities can get left out as they try to make good plays to regain their confidence.

    2. Lack of enough quality defenders. We have 3 decent starting defenders. But no depth. I agree we need to get more defenders and that its a pressing problem. I think letting Prideaux leave was a bad move considering our lack of depth. Its an urgent need, not due to our quality of starters...but rather due to the lack of quantity of potential starters

    Also, Gross is one of the difference makers here (as other have pointed out). Theres a reason why we give up less goals with him on the field... he tracks back on defense. Most outside mids dont track back as well as he does. Gros almost becomes another outside back because he's such a workhorse out there on the flank.

    IMO, this problem should resolve itself but it shouldnt cover the underlying truth that we need at least 1 (if not 2) good defenders to round out our roster. And we also need an in form BC.
     
  7. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    I'm all for finding out if a guy can play. Despite all the coaching staff's claims to the contrary, I still feel that we're one injury away from real trouble on defense.

    (Of course, this being MLS, we're one injury away from trouble in every part of our team.)
     
  8. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Every team in MLS is a player away from disaster.
     
  9. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a 352, all three backs are sorta center backs. The issue in Colorado wasn't the middle of the field but the flanks. If your outside defenders in a 352 are spending all their time challenging flank players, something's broken. In our case, it was our outside mids not providing effective defense; the 352 requires them to do what you laud Gros for doing. He should be doing it -- it's his job. It's not notable that he does it -- it's notable that the others don't, or don't well right now.
     
  10. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    Yup, that's what I was implying with my last sentence.
     
  11. BroonAleMagpie

    BroonAleMagpie New Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    The problem IMO being that when Gros is tracking back on defense, he isn't available to do forward on offense, to make the runs to open space or the blitzing moves to the outside corner for a well-placed cross that are his principal and crowning glory.
     
  12. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    couldn't decide which to post, so you get them all, none were the one I was looking for ........
     
  13. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
  14. SteveWWJ

    SteveWWJ Member

    Jan 28, 2003
    Reston, VA
  15. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that that's a drawback of the 352 -- it requires the outside mids to not only be in great shape (so they can track back on D and go forward all day long), but also to understand the game very well, so they know when to push either way. It's a very, very hard position to play.
     

  16. Very true. Hard position to play? Eh...not so much. A TON of endurance and fitness. VERY true. Its mostly just running back and forth.

    Now all 3 defenders in a 352 are (as you pointed out) essentially center backs. But another aspect is the need for the DMids to also pinch back when needed if Gross can't. Its an ebb and flow to the system in terms of responsibilities of the midfielders which can make or break the defense in a 352.
     

  17. Very true. Hard position to play? Eh...not so much. A TON of endurance and fitness. VERY true. Its mostly just running back and forth.

    Now all 3 defenders in a 352 are (as you pointed out) essentially center backs. But another aspect is the need for the DMids to also pinch back when needed if Gross can't. Its an ebb and flow to the system in terms of responsibilities of the midfielders which can make or break the defense in a 352.
     
  18. BroonAleMagpie

    BroonAleMagpie New Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    I'd say it's more than that. You have both offensive and very concrete defensive reposnsibilities which you have to balance mentaly and in terms of positioning, which is not the case if you are wing midfielder in a traditional sense.

    But the D-Mids have their own responsibilities and will not always be available. And the wing players will not always be available either.

    Which means the three players in the back have to be both central defenders and flank defenders. And we've seen again and again (not just in the couple of games of this pre-season, but last year and the year before) that some of our D players just can't handle that. Erpen in particular SUCKS at it. Not because he's not a good player (I think he think he's better than he really is, but I wouldn't say he's not good), but because those three need to be defenders ALL THE TIME. And he likes going upfield and being a gloryhound too much to fill that role effectively. Time and time again we have seen the defence come down to those guys at the back, and if attackers are able to spread them, three men (or two, if Erpen has gone hunting and a midfielder hasn't dropped back to cover for him) are simply not enough; someone is caught out trying to mark both a guy in the box and a guy out on the wing, and either tries to do both (and of course fails) or covers one guy and leaves the other one open, leading to a goal.
     
  19. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Still too early? :rolleyes:
     
  20. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I don't know, it looks like an equipment problem rather than a personnel problem.

    We've got one back.
     
  21. BigKris

    BigKris Member

    Jan 17, 2005
    Falls Church, VA
    Knave is maybe unfair to post this in the middle of a game, but clearly the problem isn't the equipment. we've given up 6 goals in 2 games to MLS competition.
     
  22. elconejito

    elconejito Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Where Homer Lives
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS teams now our weakness much better than Honduran or Mexican teams do. In the FSC post-game show they said they were trying to attack like Colorado did (down the wings) and specifically they felt they could take advantage of Erpen.
     
  23. MeridianFC

    MeridianFC Member

    Jul 26, 1999
    Washington, DC USA
    Need to adjust my totals:

    GF: 12
    GA: 12
     
  24. Wormburnner120

    Wormburnner120 New Member

    Feb 13, 2006
    Ashburn,VA
    I know it was obvious but sill FSC Needs new annoucers.
    What does those two clowns know about soccer one is a has been and can't pronounce anyones names but his own. And the other one is a WWE annoucer reject. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Grisham So what does he know about sports.
     
  25. Wormburnner120

    Wormburnner120 New Member

    Feb 13, 2006
    Ashburn,VA
    NOW do see what I was seeing? You naysayer said that ahw it too early.... I’m glad they benched Facu the second half. They did that to Boz and look what a better defender he is.All I'm say is if they don't win the next two games I hope the guys in BB and SE have the old banner and you guys know what I'm talking about ...... It starts with Fire and it ends in Coach.
     

Share This Page