As a Briton I certainly don't find myself laughing at Iran over this. I don't think we will ever know if the sailors were in Iranian waters or not but you can be certain that if we were our government would be denying it. The sailors have read out conflicting reports of their time in capture, both written by the respective authorities and both to me sound fabricated. I guess the respective peoples will always tend to go with their own governments word but both countries have proven themselves to be untrustworthy in recent times and I am pretty sure that if it was the other way around we would have done the same thing. If anything, I hope this episode forces the two countries into discussions which improve the relationship long term.
Hopefully the theater would be a little better because the Iranian propaganda was laughably amateurish. People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?
you daughter as a foreigner sure can.. don't believe me ask this from all those Japanese or Korean women who come to their team games in Iran... well if she wants to hang out with Iranian girls watching sports she can go watch the Basketball or volleyball leagues which I am sure she will find more appealing... Jews in Iran don't get harassed the way you think... Iran is not your biggest ally Saudi Arabia! even the Jewish media can agree on this...
I see no reason to repeat myself. Contrary to what you think, this isn't about demonising Iran - but equally, it isn't about pandering to the fantasists around here who desperately need Iran to be something its not in order to overcome pretty obvious and pretty obviously crushing personal issues. You're being silly. Military missions involve observation and reportage on an entirely routine basis. The fact that you need to try and make such mundane matter more significant than it is just in order to maintain any form of foothold in this discussion is the most eloquent demonstration of the silliness of the Iranian position and of its proponents. Yeah, obviously forged. Let's face it, it must have been manipulated because, like, it's the British that need to make shit up in this situation, rather than the kidnappers.
There is no restriction, nor any harrasment, of Jews praying in their temple or synogogue. Iran boasts the largest Jewish community in the Middle East, and even Israeli accounts admit that Iranian Jews are well treated. Your question is profoundly ignorant. Your daugher will not be able to go to major stadium showing soccer games. I don't support that restriction, but this issue is misrepresented in the western media and misundertood by outsiders. Iranian women can attend many different types of sporting events alongside men. What makes football stadia and a few other sports different? Regretably Iranian football stadia attract mostly people from Iran's poorer, younger, and often less well behaved classes. The regular chants in the stadia are profane by any standard, and letting in women would create major security headaches given the large, young, crowds that often can get very rowdy. Most families would never ever allow their daughters to attend most of these games due to atmosphere in the stadium. For the regime, the chances of an incident such as seeing young men making inappropriate comments to a woman, and then an ensuing fight between the family of the woman and those insulting her, that can blow into a major incident, is not worth the risk. Except those who prefer to see riots and disorders in Iran, anyone who has to tackle this issue in Iran needs to come up with ways to reduce these risks and to provide for a more 'family condusive" atmosphere in the football stadia in Iran. The reason I don't support the restriction is because I believe there are ways to counter this real problem without an outright ban. To reach any conclusions about the status of women in Iran based on the fact that they can't attend football matches would be foolish. Iranian women are an integral part of Iran's work force, hold all sorts of positions in this society, constitute more than 60% of the university students, and have substantial (often predominant) power and influence within their families, including viz a viz their husbands. Indeed, very few men in the west would agree to the typical marriage terms in Iran, which include agreeing to be liable to pay the women upon demand, at any time, a substantial sum of money. Imagine earning around a $700 a month, which is the typical income here (its real purchasing power is around $2,500), and yet being liable to pay $200,000 anytime your wife is upset at you! Imagine failure to pay that sum would land you in jail! This is totally typical in Iran and there are lot of men in jail for being unable to pay this sum. (Marriage contracts in Tehran typically include a "mehriye" around 1,000 "Azadi coins", each worth around $180 or thereabouts, and increasingly you find the "mehriye" ranging in more affluent areas anywhere between 2,000 to in some cases 10,000 gold coins - the latter around $2 million). Being in Iran, I have no doubt that the least of Iran's problems right now relate to status of women and their rights. While some older woman, especially from traditional families and before the current prevailing marriage contracts began to emerge, are oppressed by their husbands, today women in Iran are holding their own and more.
The best way to know who is suffering from personal issues, is to see who has the greater need to put down other people to make himself good about himself. In the meantime, I encourage you to try to live your dreams instead of being so pitty to worry about denying others their's.
Don't cry, Ken. Like I said, it's not about demonising Iran, I just see no reason to pay exaggerated respect to your fantasy version of the world. Calls a spade a spade, does I. Which is a dictum that extends to attempts at characterising precisely what it might be that drives you and others here into such a regular frenzy of propagandist make-believe. My conclusion is inferiority complex.
Those suffering from 'inferiority complexes' (and such people can be found everywhere, in all cultures) have a profound need to put down others. That is the only way they can feel good about themselves. But carry on...
Let's be clear. Iran has every right to be nursing an inferiority complex. What bothers the world is their need to use attention getting devices.
Perhaps its a testament to Persian culture, or because of a long history that has known ups and downs and learned to properly evaluate each, that despite having in your estimation every 'right to nurse an inferiority complex', there are fewer Iranians who exhibit such complexes than one can find proportionally among people in the west.
I've never been there either but of the anglo-Americans I know who've been there, they'd all agree with you and of the Iranians in the US I know in real life (not BigSoccer life) they would also agree with you.
I don't support the ban because it penalizes the wrong people. It tries to appease the problem instead of solving it. Your suggestion, however, is not practical, at least not in the short run, because these young men are the fans on whose support Iranian clubs rely upon. I have nonetheless seen proposals that are meant to totally change the kind of crowds that attend the matches, raising the ticket prices substantially, creating family sections in the stadiums, and creating a different atmosphere altogether. In a country where the voting age is 16, and those who vote most consistently and in the greatest numbers are from the same classes that attend football matches, these kind of proposals might not fly either.
It's preferable to punish law abiding Iranian women because Iranian men obviously can't be expected to behave properly towards their sisters and mothers.
I realize that. But I also know that many anglo - americans are not able to appreciate foreign cultures properly. I mean most anglo american tourists are afraid to walk the streets of Naples or Athens because of all the "brown people". I really can't judge from their opinions. I've spoken to people that have visited my country for instance, and it's surprising how few of them have really been able to absorb the essence of the country. All they see is the beat up cars, and dirty apartment complexes, but they don't really know what's behind that facade.
I have a friend that has an interesting theory about human understanding. He calls it the 2-4-6 theory. He says it takes about two years for a person in a new situation to realize the things they thought were true that aren't. It takes about four years after that for a person to realize the things that are true that they didn't understand. Last, it takes about six years for people to figure out if they can live with the difference. He says that's why people tend to get divorced in six to twelve years. I don't really blame people for not understanding a country after a few years, let alone in a few weeks. I think things that don't match our perceptions take a long time to see.
What would we do about it? I mean, yeah, if we weren't bogged down in Iraq, that would be one thing. We'd whup their asses. And I guess we could either try to mount a rescue mission, bomb them or assassinate a few of their leaders. But what other options would we have now? A few yahoos with IEDs in Iraq have already stretched our armed forces almost to the breaking point. Are we going to withdraw all our troops from Korea to go after Iran? Or maybe we can resurrect Ronald Reagan so he can sell the Iranians some more weapons to get them to release our guys (but not until after the next election, natch). Leave the brainless chest-thumping to the Bushies. It's about all they're good at.
Five bombs in the transformer parks of five Iranian refineries would cripple their economy. I fear that after enough time Iran will do enough dumb things to eventually receive the attention they've been so desparate to get.
It would also give oil companies an excuse to raise the price of gas to $4.50 a gallon (sorry, $4.49.9 per gallon).
Which would not cripple our economy and I think that we are just marking time until Iran does something(s) so childish the West considers it "worth it".
I see that you cant give up your wierd habit of reading all my posts for fun on weekends . Ordinary Iranians who break the law , is that hard for you to understand? If it was me breaking a law at the same magnitude as those Brits I would have been treated much worse .
No, GringoTex is correct. They wouldn't kidnap American soldiers because Bush would likely bomb the hell out of them. You speak to the problems of occupying Iran, which wouldn't be contemplated.
The Americans are the ones in the 'kidnapping business' these days. That said, there is a report confirmed by the US military of a firefight on the Iran-Iraq border, involving Iranian troops and US and Iraqi units. The Iranians tried to arrest the US contingent, but they fled. Several Iraqis were captured.