Is Giuliani for Real?

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Anthony, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Giuliani looks set to announce his candidacy (he has formed an exploratory committee). Polls show him with a lead over McCain in the GOP primary polls. This is despite the fact that the "conventional wisdom" says Giuliani is too socially liberal, too anti-gun and carries too much baggage to win the GOP nomination.

    Since WWII, LaGuardia and Lindsay both made noises about running for president. After throwing up a trial balloon, LaGuardia realized it was not happening, and died soon after retiring as mayor anyway. LaGuardia mostly made some speeches but figured the country was not ready for a Republican president who was a former socialist, part Jewish, part Italian Episcopalian.

    Lindsay tried to run a very modern television based campaign for the Democratic nomination in 1972. Lindsay had the difficulty in that he was a Republican until 1970 -- he switched parties after losing the GOP mayoral primary in 1969 but getting elected as a Liberal. Lindsay won the Arizona primary but made no impression on the wider electorate.

    Now we have Giuliani. Twice divorced and a social liberal, who for a while lived with some gay friends. He carries lots of baggage in a GOP supposedly under the increasing domination of the evangelicals and Christian right. Yet there he is, seemingly to increase his lead. And it is not because the right is divided, they seem nonexistant (Brownback? Huckabee? Romney -- the Mass. Mormon who was not too long ago a supporter of gay rights is not the great right hope).

    Is it really possible that Giuliani could win the GOP nomination?

    (As disclosure -- Giuliani is my second choice after McCain)
     
  2. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think he'll get the Presidential spot (WAY too much baggage, and you haven't even scratched the surface there), but he's definitely a candidate for the Veep slot.
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's as viable as Joe Lieberman was at the same point in the last electoral cycle.
     
  4. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    8 years of George the Incompetent might make Republicans overlook Giuliani's NY liberalism and personal life, particularly since he's a symbol of 9-11 American courage. It will be tricky, but he can win over some of the meat and potatoes crowd.


    :confused:
     
  5. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Lieberman had name recognition, but no real popularity.
     
  6. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Giuliani is supposed to be this great leader for the actions that he took after 9/11. Can someone explain to me what exactly did he do and more importantly what he did that other recent NYC mayors likely would not have done?
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Socratic method, still viable.
     
  8. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In truth, Mike Bloomberg is really the man who should be given credit for all actions taken to restore NYC after 9/11. Some were unpopular, but all were necessary.
     
  9. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Now there's a socially liberal Republican that I could get behind. He knows how to run an executive branch. And he actually cares about policy and government.
     
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would drop my support for John McCain like a bad habit if he ran for president.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus he's really a Democrat.
     
  12. sebakoole

    sebakoole New Member

    Jul 11, 2002
    Can someone give me one good reason why I shouldn't interpret the following as irrefutable evidence of opportunism?

    So, in other words, he believes in abortion rights and gay rights but he is willing to put aside his principles if it gives him a shot at power? I mean really, how else am I supposed to interpret his reasoning?
     
  13. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Rudy is big on telling crowds he and they will disagree on certain issues. He isn't pulling a "Romney" and flopping all over the place. He's a New York-style Republican and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

    And excuse me, but I haven't noticed this currently "conservative" Supreme Court outlawing abortion or homosexuality. And, believe me, they won't so get off it. Giuliani may very well select individuals like Roberts and Alito to the bench, which is fine. But he isn't the type to go for hard-ass right-wing ideologues.
     
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your post has an internal contradiction.
     
  15. The Gribbler

    The Gribbler Member

    Jul 14, 1999
    Cedar Hill, Texas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    About the only Republican I'd vote for. I don't like how he's kissed the president's rear throughout the Iraq war though. But I haven't heard any comments about the war in the last year or so from him.
     
  16. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Rudy on Hannity & Colmes:

    Part 1 on the Supreme Court, abortion, gun control...

    [youtube]VMAXw3ZZuYU[/youtube]

    Part 2 on gays, immigration, Iraq, other candidates...

    [youtube]2bM-r3dDMd8[/youtube]
     
  17. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Originally Posted by Wash Post
    Giuliani restated his support for abortion rights and gay rights but said he believes marriage should remain a union between a man and a woman and then another woman, and then another woman, and so on, and so on. He also defended his support for tough gun-control laws in New York, saying they helped reduce crime in the city while he was mayor.


    Fixed. :D

    I like Rudy, but he should stay away from the "m" word altogether.
     
  18. sebakoole

    sebakoole New Member

    Jul 11, 2002
    I'm not claiming Giuliani is a flip-flopper. Giuliani's explanation of his position on social issues is distinctly different from Romney's. The latter claims he has had a change of heart. That may be so or he may be pandering, I don't know. Given that I've changed my mind on certain issues over the years I'm willing to give Romney the benefit of the doubt.

    Giuliani, on the other hand, is still personally in favor of gay rights and abortion rights, but says those beliefs will not get prevent him from abiding by the "orthodoxy" of the party. Two possible conclusions here: (1) he is being sincere and, therefore, doesn't have much dedication to his own beliefs; or (2) he is not being sincere and social conservatives cannot believe their values will be protected under a Giuliani presidency. So which one is it? Sincere and spineless. Or insincere and not willing to fight for what he claims he is willing to fight for?

    Was never on it.
     
  19. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Of course, by "New York-style Republican" you mean Democrat.

    Which relevant case has come on their docket?
     
  20. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    I think you're assuming Rudy has to be one or the other of the (false, in my opinion) choices you present.

    I believe there is almost no way the Democrats will fail to increase their majorities in both the House and Senate in the 2008 elections. As a result, if Rudy were to achieve the White House, he would be dealing with a Congress run by people who generally agree with him on his social beliefs. It may be just a matter of degrees they'll disagree on, but he and the Dems would be on the same page overall. He wouldn't have to fight with them much on that front. Therefore, he wouldn't be required to "sell out."

    Ironically, if there were a Republican Congress, he would have to make some serious decisions about those matters. But there won't be.
     
  21. dreamer

    dreamer Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    For some reason none of these people look very presidential yet, except Hillary Clinton. As much as I like Rudy, at this moment, I think Hillary looks more like a commander in chief than he does.
     
  22. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What does a commander in chief look like?
     
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Dolemite

    Dolemite Member+

    Apr 2, 2001
    East Bay, Ca
    man.... i can support a "liberal" republican. you know, republicans who get voted into office in the west and the east coasts. guys who are fiscally conservative, but relatively moderate to liberal on social issues. and i've said for years that i would vote for the "pete wilson" types into national office. but you can see guys like giuliani starting to cave into social issues so that they can get votes in the south and whatnot. but i can never get behind the "trent lott" side of the republican party, no matter what they say on fiscal issues.
     
  25. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    One great thing about Giuliani, if he wins, is that the White House will never have a dull moment. It will be back to the Clinton days, or perhaps even better, to the Kennedy days.

    How is his taste in women? Does anybody have a picture of his conquests?
     

Share This Page