A couple of other threads have arisen on the Germany forum about the foreign invasion, and why German clubs aren't so big. We've also discussed in the past why the German NT has fallen a bit over the last decade or so. Well, here is a major reason: http://www.planetfootball.com/artic...=22&title=Voller+alarmed+at+foreign+influence Voller is expressing alarm at the fact that Bundesliga teams are comprised of 60% foreigners, thus giving few opportunities for young German players to develop. I was already aware of the very high 60% figure, but I figured that the other big leagues would have similar numbers. Not so - Other leagues percentage of foreigners: England - 47% (the closest) Spain - 40% France - 40% Italy - 33% This is a major problem for the development of German players, the strength of the German NT, and the depth of Bundesliga teams. Some have (rightly) said that it is a simple matter of the cream rising to the top. That German players will get playing time if they earn it over their foreign rivals. It's a good point, however, it is also a bit of kunundrum. How can young German players ever prove themselves if playing slots are already being filled up by more experienced foreigners who were already able to develop with smaller clubs from their home countries? What has happened is that BL clubs have gotten lazy or indifferent to their youth systems. It is easier or a quicker fix for them to simply let foreign clubs do the youth development, then go raid them when the players are ready for prime time. Meanwhile, young German players get the shaft. And the funny thing is, at least half of the 60% foreign players are, IMHO, quite mediocre and could be easily replaced by a decent young German. It has also been proven by Stuttgart that a team can be very successful with having good (largely German) young players. Any thoughts?
As an immediate gut reaction, a league should not permit foreigners to be the majority of the players in its league. It would be interesting to take an opinion poll of Bundesliga fans in Germany. The other three big European leagues seem to have achieved the right balance of foreign nationals in their league. Although I know some Italian-Americans who believe Serie A has too many foreign players. As a MLS fan, I would have a lot of problems with the foreigner limits being raised particularly with a 10 team league. As the league expands and its quality improves, the foreigner limits could be raised without diminishing the quality of American players.
I suspect the percentage of foreigners is simply a symptom of something larger. Namely that German youths are less interested in playing soccer than their fathers and grandfathers and foreigners have come in to pick up the slack.
That's pretty interesting. I wonder if any of the German based posters (Olaf, Basti,Syncope,Germanshephard, etc) can verify that? If it's true, than it's a reality that German fans have to face up to: That the BL teams need that 60% foreigner quota.
As I said in another thread, the youth programmes are working since a few years and before the clubs were sloppy. The problem is that it takes several years until this will show an effect, the current generation of youth players still suffers under the lack of support from the old days - and you can't compensate the lack of talent and skills by simply giving them playing time. Another problem are the reserves of the big clubs, mainly Bayern, Dortmund and Leverkusen. They have several talents, who would be able to play at least 2.Bundesliga, but they are kept in their own system hardly without any chance to make the pro roster and they are simply wasting years of their career by that. In German hockey there is a limit of foreigners (12 foreigner licenses per year), but they can only do this as they are a small league that doesn't cause attention at the EU. A simple foreigner limit in any version would not be permitted for Bundesliga. Don't know about the number of German soccer players in the youth. What I know is that women's soccer is booming, there are more active youth players than ever before. Might be that the number of male players got lower, not sure about it.
I don't think its anything to do with the percentage of foreign players, as someone else said that is just a sympton. Also as someone who has lived here there does not seem to be any problem with interest in playing the game. Take any German town and the biggest club (and germans do like their clubs!) is always the soccer club. The facilities here are of a very high standard compared to most other countries. Anyone who watched English football before the "foreign invasion" there will tell you the standard of football there has improved greatly because of it. I said this in another thread, but I believe one issue in Germany is the regional league system and strange shortage of full time clubs given the size of the country. 3 or 4 national divisions with only professional clubs would help, giving younger german players the opportunity to develop.
I think it would already help to increase the number of teams in Bundesliga to 20 and the number in 2.Bundesliga and Regionalliga to 24 each. Even given a 60% quota it would mean to have additional 70+ German pros. In 2.Bundesliga and Regionalliga this would be an essential improvement for the income situation given that the clubs would have five additional home games (new TV negotiations would be necessary though as the current clubs would refuse this change if they earn less than before). Also, changing the number of relegating/promoting teams gives more security for long term plans and requires less cheap Eastern players that today can be found almost throughout all 2. Bundesliga clubs where they have an unbelivable quota of 40% of the clubs leaving the league after each season (3 up, 4 down, 11 stay).
In Italy’s serie b they use to relegate 4 and promote 4 so there was even more fluctuation. And I’m not saying that’s good. Just say no to expansion! What is needed is a national league on the 3. level and then 2 leagues on the 4. level. German club’s just started investing in youth after 98 and it will take a couple more years for that show. It is crucial for kids from 14-18 to have two training sessions daily.
u23 teams replace reserve squads ...if you look at TSV 1860 you'll notice that they replaced their reserve squad with a u23 squad which seems to be having decent results. This is a sure sign that this club is interested in developing youth talent. There is already one success story where Beier has moved through to the professional team. There are non-German nationals on the team (about 3-4). I think this is a nice compromise between developing youth and doing some missionary work as well.
Re: u23 teams replace reserve squads It seem to be fashionable with BL clubs to rename their reserve side U-whatever (and they let older players play nevertheless). It's more PR than anything else, imo.
Re: Re: u23 teams replace reserve squads could be true, but http://tsv1860.de/?id=82 indicates oldest is a '79er. Can't speak for other clubs policies / practices.
They still could use every player from the first team they want (i don't know if they do it, but Schalke, for example, has "young talents" like Büskens or van Hogdalem (both over 30) and several players in the mid or late 20's playing for their U-23 (which is the official name).