Preventing the "Artest" factor at ULHOWA

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by Chamo, Nov 23, 2004.

  1. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    I wonder if any meetings have been scheduled this week at HSG to go over the design of ULHOWA one more time from the perspective of correcting any potential design flaws that would make fan player confrontations a possibility. Given the bad rep that soccer fans have in the mainstream conciousness it might be a worthwhile endeavor.

    While nothing at a Dallas Burn game has ever been anywhere near to what occured in Detroit last Friday night at the Pistons-Pacers game, there have been several instances of altercations between players and fans which could have easily escalated to that point had the players run into the stands with their "dukes" up.

    Southlake Dragon stadium was a time bomb waiting to go off as visiting players would walk behind the bleachers were the supporters groups on their way to the pitch. It almost did on DC's first visit to Dallas after Kovalenko had ended O'Brien season. The supporter's greeted DC with 50 or so signs written in Cyrillic and Russian telling Kovalenko to "have a nice day". During warmups both Kovalenko and Stoichkov were riled up and tried to provoke fans. Fortunately, they never left the pitch and the fans never left the stands as the confrontations remained strictly verbal in nature. Dallas fans also were treated to a view Hudson's arse as pulled down his shorts and told them to kiss it.

    Back in 2000, DC came to town and a few Burn fans located behind the DC's bench were relentless with the Ronald McDonald chants. Albright, eventually lost it dropping a couple of F-bombs and then launching his water bottle into the stands. Nothing more than verbal abuse ensued, but this had a chance to get real ugly.

    Sweeper33's chants of "Petke must die!" evolved into "Jolley must die!" once Petke got the red card. As Dallas beat the Metros late in the game Jolley lost control and tried to come into the stands but was restrained by security and some of his teammates. I asked Jolley about that incident earlier this year at the first Town Hall meeting and he said that it wasn't the chanting that got him riled up, but that the fact that somebody clocked him with a coin as he was leaving the pitch. Had Jolley not been restrained a riot would have ensued.

    Stupid actions are not preventable, such as what happened at the home opener of the 99 season, as Dallas was pasting KC 4-0, a drunk fan ran onto the field and started taunting Preki. He was promptly decked by 3 or 4 KC players.

    However, management can be responsible for creating a volatile situation such as when they allow their mascot to provoke the fans as Dallas fans experienced in Denver during the playoff game in 2002. The dude in a Slurpee outfit blasted the Dallas fans with his high powered water gun. It took an extraordinary effort of self control to not jump over the fence on the field to kick the living daylights out of the idiot in the clown suit.

    So while I don't expect HSG to be announcing the ULHOWA moat (like they have at the Centenario in Montevideo), I hope HSG is checking all of their security contingencies twice. As my brother used to tell me: - "Mas vale prevenir, que morir!"
     
  2. gotyourback

    gotyourback Member

    Jul 18, 2002
    Aurora/Arlington
    Are you asking GE to model himself after US Intelligence?

    Warning decision makers doesn't always produce the desired effect.
     
  3. Balonpie

    Balonpie Member

    Apr 27, 2004
    Scenic Carrollton
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about this... Behaving like decent human beings ! I sure would not want FC Dallas or any authoritative body to tell me I have missbehaved and must go to the pokey. Those people that behave in a manner that appear in the first portion of the news instead of the sports section are bound to commit mischief regardless of venue. The solution would be vigilance begining w/ us. I do not mean challenge or confront the trouble maker but identify him/her and notify the authorities. In my opinion. I would not want a fence or a moat or Police in riot gear circumventing the pitch.
     
  4. texas arsenal

    texas arsenal New Member

    Aug 7, 2003
    Frisco Tx
    Verbal ribbing is acceptable as long as its not vulgar. Throwing things and going onto the field is where the line is crossed. The players much stay out of the stands (in hostile situations) and the fans must stay out of the area of play.

    Dont act like an As*hole and you wont be treated like one.
     
  5. gotyourback

    gotyourback Member

    Jul 18, 2002
    Aurora/Arlington
    Taking personal responsibility is a foundation for enlightenment and is of the highest ethical order. If each of us invested in ourselves in this manner, we may just end up with a ULHOWA civilization!

    Grow on!
     
  6. FCDallas96

    FCDallas96 Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    Dallas
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The biggest difference between ULHOWA from the basketball court is that there are barriers seperating the fans and players.
     
  7. Balonpie

    Balonpie Member

    Apr 27, 2004
    Scenic Carrollton
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was hoping that you would say individuals w/ a higher degree of respect for our sport, players and fans.
     
  8. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Arsenal
    Sep 24, 2002
    Jakarta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    Well that too.

    Most stories that I hard in regards to hooliganism more or less involves the racial taunts, throwing things at players(coins, lighters, pens, etc...), ripping up seats(hey,never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups), fights at pubs due to drunkness.

    However I would suspect the idea of paying $13 to see a game and then $150+ to bail yourself out that night from jail is a turn off.
     
  9. FCDallas96

    FCDallas96 Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    Dallas
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would have to say that judging by our group, American soccer fans are generally an intelligent group of people. It also helps that MLS isn't full of wannabe gangbangers.
     
  10. boomersooner027

    May 13, 2004
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahamas
    I am an intelligent person, I recognize that Dema needs to be disembowled
     
  11. Balonpie

    Balonpie Member

    Apr 27, 2004
    Scenic Carrollton
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eureka my friend. You are dead on. Those individuals that are pre-disposed to violence and abhorrent behavior are doomed to repeat or manifest their malaise regardless of venue.
     
  12. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Really? So that white middle aged guy that threw the cup of beer at the Piston's game was a wannabe gangbanger? The fans and the players have to share the responsibility in this. We are no different in the end....no better....no worse. Chamo just listed above several occurances that could have easily escalated to an "Artest" level and that happened at soccer games, between soccer fans and soccer players. Eric Cantona jumped into the stands and judo kicked a harrasing fan.......I don't think anyone would call him a wannabe gangbanger. Alan Smith threw a glass bottle at a fan's head.......he doesn't look like a gangbanger either. In the heat of battle, passions run high, emotion runs high, testosterone flows and people do stupid things....fans and players alike.
     
  13. FCDallas96

    FCDallas96 Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    Dallas
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My comment was meant to describe the attitude of most NBA players today. I wasn't saying the fans were angels either but cooler heads have to prevail. Instead of flying off the handle at every little incident you have to be able to rationalize things instead of using violence as your only means of "redemption" for your precious ego. He got hit with a cup of beer, big freakin' deal. The US Nats have never reacted in such a way even though they have been hit with batteries, coins and even bags of urine. I was just stating the difference in attitudes between MLS and the NBA. The biggest difference between the Cantona incident was that he actually went after the CORRECT offender. He was being abused by someone because of his French roots. I don't condone it but the guy he assaulted was in the first row and not in the 10th.
     
  14. Wallydrag

    Wallydrag BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 24, 2002
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One would think that, however...


    Obviously the first line of defense would be for the fans to keep themselves in check, don't get vulgar and not throw anything on the field and at players.

    Somewhere along the line fans started thinking that since they paid their money and the players are making outragous sums of money that they get to verbal abuse the players. That reasoning has been used before. That the fans are just pissed off and irritated with the millions players make a year and are just taking their frustrations out on them.

    If that's the thinking of a fan coming into ULHOWA someone should remind them that they just paid only $13-$24 to get into the game (compared to, say, a Mavs or Cowboys game) and that the combined yearly salary of all the players on their team is about the same as one player on the Mavs or Cowboys (in most cases). And while 3 or 4 players on the field from FCD might make more in one year than them in the stands, they have a pretty good shot at making the same yearly salary as most of the kids on the bench.

    The number one issue I think though is throwing stuff on the field and at players (or even just throwing things in the stands). Most players can put up with the verbal crap from the fans but when you get pelted with something that would piss anyone off enough to get physical. You, me, the players, anyone.
     
  15. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Picking nits, man, picking nits. He went after what he thought was the correct offender (and he was right). Artest went after what he thought was the correct offender (and he was wrong). Cantona did exactly the same thing.....and he was villanized for it. And Artest is being villanized for his actions as well. So the guy happened to be in the first row....what the heck does that have to do with anything...how does that make it any better?? Sorry, but I just don't see the huge difference here. To say that this kind of thing is more likely to occur in the NBA because of the players is ludicrious. The fans are just as responsible and the majority of fans at NBA, MLB, NFL or MLS games are white middle class suburbanites. Gangbangers can't afford $75 tickets.
     
  16. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Often mentioned when things come up, but completely wrong. Fans have been taunting and harrassing opposing players since organized sport began. Nothing to do with the racial makeup of the players, or the millions they are making, or some societal shift into violence. Before the NBA, when pro basketball was played between unaffiliated teams in small gyms, they had to erect cages around the court so that players wouldn't be hit by fans sitting along the edge. I read a book by Pat Conroy, who played college ball for the Citadel. Stories of players' legs being burned by fans holding lighters in the first row at Clemson. Being elbowed by a fan while he ran down the sideline at VMI. Stuff happened all the time. I won't even go into the taunts and verbal abuse heaped on by these fans. Please....this is nothing new. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop it........it just means we need to understand what causes it. I truly believe its the heat of the battle, the passion of the game, the testosterone flowing freely. The average suburban guy does not have an outlet for this kind of energy on a daily basis. We sit at our boring jobs, on our fat butts, in front of a screen, act politically correct, be nice to people. Once a month or so we get to go to an event were its okay to scream and be mean. We get caught up in it and bad things happen.
     
  17. FCDallas96

    FCDallas96 Member

    Aug 12, 2004
    Dallas
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I am saying is that despite what fans might do, the players are professional athletes making millions a year to play a kids game. They should be able to restrain themselves and not go into the stands and beat the crap out of the fans. Artest IMO wasn't the biggest offender, it was his teammate who went and swung wildly at everyone. What I was saying about the NBA is that they don't have any barriers separating the fans from the players. This does make it easier for players to go into the stands as well as fans getting on the court as opposed to jumping a 6 foot wall at ULHOWA. I was glad to see Stern give such strict suspensions because what happened has no place in sports.
     
  18. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Ohh I agree that both players and fans need to restrain themselves. I just don't agree with the statement that somehow this is more likely in the NBA because of the socio-economic makeup of the fanbase and players....which is what you stated earlier.
     
  19. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Plano,TX
    Since ULHOWA is a work in progress, we don't know for sure if the barrier you are assuming is there will actually be there, and that was the point of my initial post. Looking at the drafts of the stadium it seems that the stage area behind the nort goal will be a very easy access point for fans to get on the field.

    I don't think the potential situation requires drastic over the top measures, but it probably would not do any harm to double check all of their designs from a security perspective.
     
  20. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Well, I'm relatively sure that conversations like what you are proposing are going on in the FO of just about every pro/high level amateur sports organization in this country. Hell, if I was able to have a 30 minute conversation about it in my office (a department store company) then I'm positive people in the industry are all over it.
     
  21. texas arsenal

    texas arsenal New Member

    Aug 7, 2003
    Frisco Tx
    With all the rain they could easily encorporate a mote (sp?) around the field.
     
  22. j.r.'s mom

    j.r.'s mom New Member

    Jul 13, 2004
    Carrollton, Texas
    And make sure the drawbridge has an automatic Dema sensor. :D
     
  23. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    But how does one detect human feces? I didn't know we had that kind of technology at our hands.
     
  24. txaggie93

    txaggie93 New Member

    Feb 23, 2004
    Fort Worth, TX
    Dude, use your nose. :D
     
  25. texas arsenal

    texas arsenal New Member

    Aug 7, 2003
    Frisco Tx
    If we had that technology there would all of 9 posts on bigsoccer.


    And Dema isnt human
     

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