My vote is no, but I'm nervous. Trophies are more or less even if it happens, but Chicago hasn't won all of them yet (no international titles). In addtion, the DC United team fielded v. Vasco da Gama is still (by a fair margin?) the best MLS team to set foot on a pitch.
They've certainly been the most consistent in terms of quality and players sent to the national team throughout their history. If I was to look at it impartially, I really don't have a problem with it. I think it's going to be a long time before you see a team that good (and well-coached) again in this league.
I'm gonna say no, not yet at least. I think we have the potential to be the best team in history, but it will take more then one year. Even though we're going to win the treble, D.C. dominted the league for a few years, so if the Fire were to repeat this season next year, then I think they would take the title of best MLS team of all-time.
We were waiting for a response like that. I think Chicago has clearly been the best in regard to consistency. I doubt this year's Chicago team would have been able to consistently beat the DC team that beat Vasco da Gama. Yes, Chicago did take MLS Cup in '98 from DC, but does anyone think that Chicago could have consistently beaten DC that year? That said, if Chicago wins the treble this year then is able to repeat as MLS Cup champs next year, hmmmm, we definitely have a debate on our hands.
They didn't. 3-1 in Chicago in May (Benny's first pro goal) and 4-1 at RFK in July (Lassiter hat trick and Moreno breaking away and putting it through Campos' legs for the final goal).
Ok, lets see : Chicago 1998 MLS Cup 1998 Open Cup 2000 Open Cup 2003 Open Cup 2003 MLS Cup ?? DC United 1996 MLS Cup 1996 Open Cup 1997 MLS Cup 1998 CONCACAF Cup 1998 InterAmerican Cup 1999 MLS Cup Ok, thats five trophies, if they win this weekend, to our six. Except that 3 out of their five trophies are the Open Cup. National Knockout cups are usually considered lesser hardware than league championships and international championships. Of course, this is so subjective because it all depends on how you determine 'best'. You could say that Chicago have had the best combination of league consistency and trophies won. On the other hand you could say that they are a team that has done well in the Open Cup but choked in the MLS post season, and that they haven't won anything in MLS for five years. No team in MLS has achieved the dominance that DC United had from 1996-1999 in terms of trophies, the fact that we were repeat champions for two years running, the fact we made the finals for four years running, and the fact that we won CONCACAF championships. Lets see how Chicago do this Sunday and in the next couple of years before we start anointing them the new kings of MLS.
Re: Re: Re: Per Jeff Bradley: If Chicago Wins Do They Take the "Best Club" Title from DCU? Dear Still Waiting for OKC to Get a Team, The NY Freedoms won 3 Open Cups in the early 80's and didn't declare themselves a dynasty. Let's Compare NY Cosmos - 5 League Cups DC United - 3 League Cups, 1 Federation Cup, 1 Inter-Fed Cup, 1 Open Cup Chicago - 1 (possibly 2) League Cups, 3 Open Cups In terms of achievement Open Cups are hollow comparatively. However, Chicago hasn't had a down period and have turned out a wealth of players for the MNT pool. Best club? Still a couple of meaningful cups away.
Re: Re: Re: Per Jeff Bradley: If Chicago Wins Do They Take the "Best Club" Title from DCU? 1996-1999 is four years. And I used the word 'dominance', not dynasty. We morons use our language carefully. If you want to debate this sensibly, fine. Otherwise, fvck off to your own board.
Re: Re: Re: Per Jeff Bradley: If Chicago Wins Do They Take the "Best Club" Title from DCU? But 4 years does...like OU over UT?
The answer is of course, no. The title of best team remains with the Los Angeles Galaxy, who've been to no less than four MLS Cups, won it once, won the Open Cup, won the CONCACAF Champions Cup against international competition, and have won the Supporter's Shield more often than any other club in the history of MLS. No team has remained as consistent as the Galaxy throughout the course of MLS history - still the only side to never miss the playoffs.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Per Jeff Bradley: If Chicago Wins Do They Take the "Best Club" Title f Say you love Darrell Royal, SAY IT !!! On the topic at hand, I'd gladly trade the title of "Best Club" [if there is such a thing] for a spot in the Cup final every year.
In a league where 80% goes to the playoffs...jesus, don't make me laugh. Wait, you already did. So 1-3 in MLS Cup finals makes the Galaxy the best? What about the team that handed them two of those cup losses? What of them...? And if you want to speak of international cups, there's one of them Champions Cups and an InterAmerican cup in the trophy case.
So have United. We've got three. We've got one, too. See you that and raise you an InterAmerican Cup. This entire discussion depends on how you rate the trophies. If strength in the regular season is the most important factor, then LA probably gets the nod. If it's overall trophies, it's between DC and Chicago. If it's most important trophies, I'll put DC's three MLS Cups, CONCACAF and InterAmerican trophies against Chicago's admittedly-impressive domination of the US Open Cup any day. I'll stick with DC for right now, but if Chicago completes the treble this weekend, it's a straight toss-up in my book. RS
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Per Jeff Bradley: If Chicago Wins Do They Take the "Best Club" Title f Don't worry about that. OU will win the national championship this year, Bob Stoops will decide that he needs a bigger challenge and move on to the NFL, and OU will replace him with Howard Schnellenberger Mark II. Mack Brown will then get a few wins over OU, but will still be unable to win a conference title.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Per Jeff Bradley: If Chicago Wins Do They Take the "Best Club" Tit Love your usertext. How's Ali Curtis working out for you all? A lot of us here miss him.
Getting back to the matter at hand. As much as I hate to admit it, I think a very good argument can be made for Chicago as the best team over the history of the league. They and DC are the only two teams to win the MLS Cup in their first season. The participate consistently in MLS Cups. And they boast a continuing series of Open Cups and Supporters' Shields that speak of on-going excellence. The thing that distinguishes them from DC is that they seem to have made the transition to the second generation of players without skipping a beat. Whereas DC seems lost without Marco/Jaime/Goose/Llamosa/Pope, Chicago remains consistently excellent in the post Novack/Stoichkov/Kubik era, and that is a true indicator of greatness. If Chicago remains competitive again next year, after the departure of Beasley/Armas/Bocanegra and whomever else, I think they'll merit treatment as the best club in league history. perc
EXACTLY. I think no matter how you land on the 'best club' argument, you'd at least have to say they get 'best GM' with Peter Wilt. I don't remember a lot of clubs slobbering at the thought of getting Nowak six years ago, and Wilt flat out pilfered Armas from LA. We lose our coach to NY and simply replace him with a guy that produces the best regular season record. We had to shack up in an unsuitable venue for two years, and somehow still managed to draw great numbers. It goes on and on. Not to take anything away from the serious hardware DC has grabbed, but last I checked, we did this is six years not eight, and nobody is gifting us Freddy Adu or Luis Hernandez or any other "natural draws". You could argue Stoitchkov, maybe, but that's about it. Don't even bring up Campos- that was a joke.