I just remember vivdly (for some reason) my Quakes scored 61 times and had 62 scored on them while Steve Zungul won the final MVP award.
Someone should do that. I don't think he left out players. I think he was very meticulous to get all the players in there, even if he didn't have their first names sometimes. It's the dearth of stats and the typeface and organization of them (not to mention he could have used a proofreader desperately) that I had a problem with. Here it is, anyway. Kinda sparse. Maybe I should scan the cover and write a review. Speaking of overpriced books, I'd really love to read this one, but not for $67. Homey don't play that.
Someone should publish that would be more accurate...one day, one day... Eh...maybe you wouldn't. It is set up like his first NASL book, but without any of the bells and whistles as far as fonts and charts. There is very little in the way of season summaries. Each team has a fixture list, with the result and the goal scorers, followed by a GP list and G list. There is a also a register, looking exactly like the NASL register in his second book. I mean, I find it essential, but wouldn't exactly call it a "read," if you know what I mean.
Well, you know about the ASL. I know virtually nothing. Maybe a narrative would be better. But I don't know how many of those guys are still alive, or if such a book would be commercially viable. My thought is that, like most soccer books, it wouldn't be.
If you read my stuff, you would know a little more than nothing. I am chagrined. An excellent, but long out-of-print, book is Zander Hollander's Encyclopedia Of American Soccer. In it, he had a long chapter on ASL II (1933-1983). He says that some of the folks he interviewed mentioned an "old" ASL, and a "soccer war," but then goes on to dismiss both as something akin to urban legends. Anyway, my point is most of the ASL I figures were gone in 1980 (when the book was published). The rest are surely dead by now. I've tried to construct narratives based on newspaper reports, but the quality of coverage varies greatly, making it difficult. As Kenn said, those guys were from the second ASL. Do yourself a favor and go to the American Soccer History Archives and read the Year In Review articles for 1922 to 1929 or so, the Golden Era of U.S. Soccer. If you don't know about ASL I, you're missing a lot of good stuff.
I remember reading a little bit about the league but the coverage at least compared to the NASL wasn't that great. I always wondered why they didn't merge with the NASL. Amazingly, they didn't last much longer after the NASL folded. I remember the New Jersey Americans becuase they played in the shadows of the the Cosmos although not too many knew about them. I think Pele's supposed replacement Ramon Mifflin played with them. He later became coach othe the Quakes during the WSA under owner Bill Lunghi but the team folded before he ever coached a match. The last I herd he was incvolved in a drug ring in the SF BAy Area. I also remember the Sacramento Gold & Spirits.
ASL II actually folded before the NASL, in 1983. Mergers would get discussed from time to time, but very few ASL teams could hang with the NASL as far as finances. The NJ Americans (who signed Eusebio for a year and employed Eddie Firmani as a coach in 1979) could've hung, as could the Los Angeles Skyhawks and California Sunshine (and maybe even the Pennsylvania Stoners), but most of the clubs were true minor league teams. A merger really wasn't necessary because the leagues weren't really competing against each other for players or markets. Interestingly, a few NASL teams bolted for the ASL, because they thought the league was a little more fiscally responsible.
As an old Stoner (and a new one) with some background on this, I think the ASL's offices actually ended up in Bethlehem, though I'm not sure (I quit after the 1981 season). I think Ramon Mifflin played for New York United out of Shea Stadium, Randall's Island and Hofstra. New Jersey may have been done by then, having moved to Miami to be come the Miami Americans, coached by Ron Newman. New Jersey's best years may have been when they played at Wall Stadium, at the Jersey Shore. Good players like Skip Roderick, Barry Gorman, Woody Hartman, Kevin Gannon and Joey DiSalvo, to name a few. I worked at the Jersey Shore Soccer Camp in Lakewood, where they trained. I think Firmani was with them only 1 year, when they played at Rutgers. I think that, at one point, they actually made a play for Johan Cruyff. Yes, really. Although I left before it all fell apart, I believe the ASL II's second best set of players were the ones the final year. The NASL's many failures led to a glut of players on ther market. Instead of real jobs, they went to the ASL... The highest level of play was 1977 to 1980; tons of good foreign players and an interesting mix of South Americans, Europeans of all sorts, Africans and Americans who really belonged.. One of the best sources for ASL 1 information is Mr. Walter Bahr, former Penn State coach and father to a series of great athletes (three soccer players, two of them NFL kickers and a top-notch gymnast for his only daughter). He just turned 80, but stays on top of the game and seems to remember everyone he ever met. He played up and down the east coast during the ASL's prime years. He also was on the team that beat England in 1950, though he'll tell you the movie was nothing like the real thing... A true gentleman and one of the finest soccer teachers in the world...
I don't know about that, but the original United Soccer League (formed in 1984 from a few surviving ASL teams and some new ones) did have their offices in Bethlehem. Agreed on all points, except one--Mr. Bahr had no involvement with ASL I. He starred in the late 1940s and 1950s--part of the ASL II era, which, while "prime" for ASL II, was a far cry from the heyday of ASL I.
One thing I've touched on in other threads is the NASL just made too many mistakes. They should never have overexpanded in 1978. A lot of it was it seemed that they believed their own press releases and thought soccer would take off right away. However, many other problems surfaced also. The small number of Americans who played were either too young, not enough of them or not good enough to overtake the foreigners. The Americans were good and got better but its tough for a Steve Moyers to compete and overtake a Chinaglia or a Pele & Best. When those foreigners either got too old or retired, there weren't any of the same quality replacements to take their positions. Commissioner Phil Woosnam also I believed listened to too many people and was in over his head. Its a different time now as there are many players and only a few foreigners and the owning of the SSS also is a credit to whomever invented it. I think it was foremr NASL owner Lamar Hunt who should take credit for it. TV, PPV, Sponsors & Youth soccer was big back then and started taking off but nothing like it is now. No matter what happens to the MLS, the SSS will still be standing and someone sooner or later will have to play in them. The time frame of the NASL was just too short lived. I loved the NASL and if wasn't for those pioneers , we probably wouldn't be here discussing soccer nor would there ever have been an MLS but the MLS is much more stable than the NASL ever was and this is a good thing.
There will be a new book coming out in 2008. In profiles about a dozen soccer clubs in American history [1910-present]. To reserve your copy email: soccerarchives@gmail.com
I met a guy a few years ago at an Upward Soccer conference who was a 1st round draft pick of the NY Eagles. I think he went to Hartwick.
Somebody ought to do a book on ASL II. Hollander's book was good, but the chapter on the ASL ought to be expanded. I was probably the only kid in the world who actually took an interest in the ASL, especially in the latter days, thanks to Soccer Corner magazine. I could kick myself for giving up the subscription after I quit playing during high school.
Hartwick guys to the NY Eagles? Could be Duncan MacDonald. I know he played for Hartwick and the NY Eagles. He also lived near Atlanta. Also played at the original Stoners and is back in Oneonta now... Red haired guy? If it's Mac, you met a truly great guy...
Wasn't it one year where the DC Diplomats folded and then the Detroit Express moved to the NASL and another team in Detroit took a spot in the ASL or was it another team? I forget....
The Dips did fold, IIRC and the Express moved to DC and became the new Dips. Detroit DID have an ASL team towards the end, and, again, IIRC, won the title one year in front of a big crowd at the Silverdome.
Jimmy Hill was part of the ownership group who took the NASL Express and moved to Washington to become Dips II. One of the minority owners decided not to go, though, and kept the Express name and logo and purchased an ASL franchise. I don't recall whether their 1982 title was won before a large crowd, but I do recall an Express v. ASL All-Stars game that was a huge draw at the Silverdome because Detroit brought back a special player from their NASL past--Trevor Francis. As far as DavidP's question--I believe Colin Jose and Roger Allaway had started working on piecing together some kind of ASL II registry, but it is really difficult--records just aren't there. I have a lot of stuff post 1975, which are the years you're talking about, but a book about ASL "2.5" probably isn't going to be as fascinating as, say, books about the WHA or ABA.
I'd have to find my 1983 or 1984 ASL guide (It's in storage back in Chicago), but I know it said that Detroit hosted the final and got a big crowd. Don't know how big. I have The Complete Historical and Statistical Reference to the World Hockey Association, 1972-1979 and it's sweet. I'd love to have a similar tome for everything.
I don't know why people want to pit NASL vs. MLS. The two are closely connected, if you follow the history, not just Lamar Hunt but the whole NASL to 1986 WC bid to the 1994 WC to MLS progression, really MLS is a kind of NASL 2.0. Early MLS went a bit too far in the single entity direction trying to avoid the mistakes of the NASL, but I think MLS is getting closer to the right path now. If the NASL had survived and learned its lessons, it would look much like what MLS looks like today. Also remember NASL lasted for 17 season; MLS still has 6 seasons to equal that. That's nothing to sneer at; people talk sometimes as though NASL only lasted from Pele until the end of the ABC TV contract, but the NASL was much longer lived than that. I grew up with the NASL. I've still yet to experience the kind of thrilling crowd experiences in MLS that I experienced in Tampa Stadium watching the Rowdies. NASL excelled at attracting world stars and large attendances. However in most other aspects MLS has surpassed NASL. It's more economically stable. American soccer fans are more knowledgeable now and better organized. We have a large pool of talented American players that did not exist back then. The US national team actually qualifies for the WC every four years. We have a growing number of SSS, a concept that wasn't even conceivable in the NASL era. As to messing with the rules to "appeal to Americans" that idea has been thoroughly debunked. I liked the NASL but not because of the rule changes. They weren't necessary, and as I learned more about soccer that became obvious. The differences between NASL and MLS was that NASL crowds were naive about soccer and knew nothing of the world's game; MLS crowds however were much more sophisticated and thus not willing to compromise the world's game for the sake of appealing to the tastes of people who didn't like/understand soccer anyway. The NASL played a vital role in educating and creating the soccer audience which has made MLS success possible. The two league are simply two different steps along the same path.
Let me know how you make out finding that 1984 ASL Guide. Here's a hint: it's probably right next to your 1979-80 WHA Guide and 1976-77 ABA Guide. Snarky comment aside, you're probably right about the final. I do recall that the all-star game was a big hit, too. I have that book, too. Great stuff. And pretty much self-published, too, wasn't it?