Three Ideas for a Better American Soccer Fan

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Westbrook Diarist, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Westbrook Diarist

    Nov 30, 2008
    Westbrook, Maine
  2. thecastigador

    thecastigador Member

    Oct 31, 2006
    Boston (JP)
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just posted my reply in your blog.

    Overall, I think it was well written and I tend to agree with you.
     
  3. untowardbehavior

    Jun 28, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This guy has posted this in every forum.
     
  4. Westbrook Diarist

    Nov 30, 2008
    Westbrook, Maine
    I initially posted this item in only one of the general MLS forums and in this forum. It has since been relocated to another MLS forum by a moderator.
     
  5. MidnightMackemRider

    MidnightMackemRider New Member

    Mar 30, 2008
    Boston Area
    Club:
    Sunderland AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Therefore, American soccer fans should use language that is easily understood by the non-soccer fan in America. And speak a tongue that upholds the American soccer tradition."

    I'm sorry. I can't help but disagree almost 100 percenect with you on this first point that you make. While REAL SALT LAKE is probably an absurd nickname that has no bearing the fact of the matter is that if we are speaking in a language that upholds the tradition of soccer than we are using the exact words that you say not to use.

    If the Fall River Marksmen were playing Bethlehem Steel, it was a match. They called it a match. Most of them (immigrants) called it football. And they did not call it a field or a pitch, they actually called it an oval.

    Being honest, I wouldn't mind a 4th idea being added. The idea that American Soccer fans should go back, and leanr about the different leagues that existed back in the turn of the century. They should learn about how we Americans inspired the Brazilians in a Wolrd Cup Game played against the Queen's Men. And we should remember to honor those who worked in the mills by day, played football by night, went home to familes only to wonder how long careers could last.

    For the American soccer fan it shouldn't matter what you call it so long as you can translate for anyone who wishes to be a member of our crazy zany and ridiculous sport in a way that is both open and humorous.

    As the MLS says. Football, Futbol, Soccer


     
  6. Westbrook Diarist

    Nov 30, 2008
    Westbrook, Maine
    MMR,

    I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the degree to which semantics matter. And though you gracefully rebut my argument about tapping into America's soccer tradition, I still think it is important to use more inclusive language (read: Speak American).

    On your second point (i.e., increasing our appreciation for America's soccer history, particularly the previous incarnations of domestic leagues), I wholeheartedly agree. As I stated in another thread last month, one small way the MLS can raise the awareness of such clubs as the Fall River Marksmen, New Bedford Whalers, the Caribous of Colorado (okay, maybe not the Caribous), etc. is to feature throwback jerseys once or twice a year.
     
  7. rev17

    rev17 New Member

    Mar 2, 2000
    KBK, ME/JAX, FL
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good read, dude. (Husky pride)!

    Points 2 and 3 are good. I tend to think support for (or defense of) MLS complements a resistance to over-the-top "diving/playcting" well. Those who are unfamiliar w/ the league would quickly realize/remember the obvious . . . that MLS is an American league and as such reflects the way the game is played in this country. Maybe not the most skilled, but physical and athletic. I've maintained for some time that on the international stage this hurts the US. Especially outside of CONCACAF. The American player will play through certain levels of contact and challenges that more "refined" internationals will "flop" on. My thoughts.

    I disagree w/ point #1, though. I've successfully introduced soccer, and even MLS, to several friends who otherwise would probably never know anything about the sport/league. Not because of any true and unwavering dislike for the sport (just the typical soccer jokes . . . of course) but the usual ignorance created by the traditional american sports media's coverage (or lack thereof). These same friends find those terms unique and intriguing. I, personally, use the word football more consistently than soccer, and now, so too do these new "fans" . . . obviously using that term relatively loosely (just keeping in mind the bigsoccer audience). Soccer is a type of football. I know this, they get it too. I know this is another whole debate, but my point is that those who are going to be turned onto the sport will not only tolerate the different terms, but also embrace and employ them, including even mulitple uses of the same word (football). And as an aside, to lend some legitimacy to my claims . . . we are all huge American football fans as well. Football is football, but the terms such as kit, pitch, and the like are what differentiates soccer from other types. having said that, I agree w/ your comment on inclusiveness. By no means should there be a mandate that these traditional, and usually english, soccer terms be used exclusively. cleats, boots, field, pitch, uniform, kit . . . whatever, it really doesn't matter . . . they all convey the same meanings. Like one of the posters said above, remember the MLS slogan: Futbol. Football. Soccer. (still their best marketing campaign to date)

    And yeah, American soccer history is certainly an underappreciated and almost forgotten story that finally needs to be recognized properly.
     
  8. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speak American? hahahahahahaha I stopped right there
     
  9. REV IT UP

    REV IT UP Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jul 12, 2004
    San Francisco
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I cant find anything wrong with the blog, I agree 100% on all three. This is an American soccer league and I want it to stay American. I love the first point of "speak American", it truly is a wonder how we can all hate on eurosnops, and then go out and use all there terminology. Noah Webster is turning in his grave because of us.

    Every American fan should follow rule number 1, especially when it comes to sing Ole. Nothing makes me cry more inside then to hear people sing that song at MLS or USA games.

    RRRREV IT UP
     
  10. conquerant

    conquerant New Member

    Sep 22, 2000
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I posted this in the comments on the blog, but I'll add it here as well: Unless you use words like "lorry" for truck, "nappy" for diaper, and "lift" for elevator, it makes no sense to use "pitch" for field, "boots" for cleats, or "strip" for jersey. Why start talking like a Brit just because you're talking about soccer?

    Rev17, those words are not soccer terminolgy, it's just British terminology that they use for all sports. And MMR, while I completly agree with you about appreciating the early years of American soccer (I'd highly recommend the book "Soccer In A Football World" which thanks to me and my purchase request you can get from the Boston Public Library now :) --although, ironically, it was published by a British publishing company and thus uses British terminology), you kinda showed my point by pointing out that they were immigrants. Yes they called it "football", but they also called diapers "nappies". And calling the field an oval comes from cricket. They were mostly from Scotland and spoke British English, which is fine, but if you're xth generation whatever-european-American, and you use American English in your everyday conversation, it's silly to start using British English as soon as you start talking about soccer.

    The tradition of using British sporting terminology when talking about soccer in America stems from soccer being a niche sport with a tiny fanbase made up largely of immigrants and anglophiles. But it's not like that today and the popularity of soccer is growing here. There is no need to start talking like a Brit when talking about soccer! Again, as I posted on the blog: In a way, by using British sporting terminology when talking about soccer, you not only sound pretentious, you're also enforcing the idea that soccer is a sport for foreginers, that American soccer isn't any good, or that Americans don't understand soccer.

    In America, we get soccer. We can play it. I embrace that. And we don't need to speak like Brits as if that proves it.
     
  11. untowardbehavior

    Jun 28, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So is it ok for Nicol to say "football"?
     
  12. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ugggh no he isnt a real american fan!

    jesus i'm puking all over my shoes.
     
  13. JMMUSA8

    JMMUSA8 New Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Webster
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, you're thick in the head.
     
  14. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hahaha that is rich
     
  15. MidnightMackemRider

    MidnightMackemRider New Member

    Mar 30, 2008
    Boston Area
    Club:
    Sunderland AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    American Footballer play on a field. It can also be called a Gridiron.

    Will newcomers to American football call it a gridiron? no. It's an inclusive thing, but it certainly does not hurt their image.

    It can be called either.

    I switch between Americanese and British when talking about the game. Mainly because my first intelligent conversations about the game were with Speirites at Saltergate.

    My whole point is this though. What makes an immigrant any less American? That is who we are? What makes it pretentious or inclusive that we have words that apply only to our sport? Surely there are other words for baseball fields (diamond), football and every sports.

    And in order to be "American" are we suddenly going to from now on call Shielding, "Posting up"?

    I understand that at first its confusing, because admittedly we have more alternative vocabulary than probably any other sport, especially once you add in the Latino influenced phrases (Like the beautiful game).

    However both the hard core eurosnobs (who refuse to believe anyone should call it soccer) and the the side that you are working on (i'll keep from using a generic catch all name to avoid criticism) need to realise (IMHO) that no matter what word you use, you are most likely not right or wrong, just different.

    And since when is different bad?
     
  16. whowhawhere

    whowhawhere New Member

    Nov 5, 2008
    I don't particularly agree with point #1. Personally, I refer to the sport as football, for the most part. I also use the terms "pitch," "side," and "match." Not because I am some "euro snob" (which is a term I think most of you should stop using and stop whining about), but because that is how I came to know the sport. I came to it through the EPL, through watching whatever EPL matches I could catch on TV, and also through watching matches on the Spanish channels. Those were the terms that I grew up with. They are the terms with which I am most comfortable.

    Anyone I have introduced to the sport has been given multiple terminologies and given the choice of which they preferred to use. I never told them they must refer to it as football, and use English terms while discussing the sport.

    The bottom line is that people are going to call it what they want to, regardless of whether it makes your eyes roll, or if you think it's snobbish or elitist. They will use the vernacular which they are most comfortable with, as I have. If they want to call it football, and use the terms pitch and side and match and boots and kit, let them. Don't tell them they're wrong or snobbish for wanting to use a different word than you do.

    I think the only guideline any football/soccer fan should have is a love, knowledge and respect of the sport.
     
  17. thecastigador

    thecastigador Member

    Oct 31, 2006
    Boston (JP)
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    I will never stop calling Eurosnobs Eurosnobs.

    You just read an article about US soccer fans and are posting in an MLS forum... you are leaps and bounds above what I would call a Eurosnob.
     
  18. untowardbehavior

    Jun 28, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? He might be turning people off by using these terms. If he wants to coach in America he's got to use our terms. (Goalkeeper - goaltender/netminder, etc.)

    Also, the guy who wrote the piece says to defend MLS but he also criticizes the names of some of the teams...the names aren't really a big deal. The league authorized their use, so if we're going to defend the league we should defend their choice of team names too.
     
  19. untowardbehavior

    Jun 28, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the end of the day, I don't think that soccer/football and pitch/field are what is holding American soccer back. I don't think it's that big of a deal what people call things, because like it's been said we've all come to the game from a different source and it's not wrong to use the terms you picked up wherever it was that brought you to the game.

    I started following the English and Scottish games from traveling to Ireland a lot when I was young. And guess what, they already have a football there too so they call soccer both soccer and football. And it's not that big of a deal.
     
  20. Revs-West

    Revs-West Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    This must be a generational thing. When I was a wee player coming up in California, the only people talking about the game were the Mexicans and Europeans that were coaching us. Nobody ever had a problem learning all of the different terms in different languages. It enriched the game more than anything. American English is a language of accretion. Why retard it's growth and color?

    Having played many a game in the Portland area and down at Howard's, there was always some foriegn element on the pitch. Maine was great for that. I played with Russians, the odd South American, a few French (of course), and even against the crew of the Queen Elizabeth 2. It seems to me that being an "Ameri-Snob" about the lexicon of the game is just as silly as being "euro-snob" about the level of play and leagues you follow.

    Many of your other points are well taken. The History of our American game needs some celebration. MLS needs to address that deficit. MLS as a product is becoming impressive. There is a long way to go before it finds it's real rhythym, but it finally looks like it will happen. Slow growth and an emphasis on infrastructure (SSS, Academies, Regional Open Cup qualifiers, etc.) will help.

    Besides, I lived on Bridge St. in Westbrook (right by the Mill) for a couple of years. Is it really in danger of being over-run by eurosnobs? It's a nice place (minus the smell of the plant), but, it's not exactly in the top 100 places being over-run by immigration. Let the language grow as it will. It's a great way for kids to learn about the rest of the world and how we have more in common than we think. Soccer is great for that.
     
  21. Westbrook Diarist

    Nov 30, 2008
    Westbrook, Maine
    Good to hear from a fellow Revs fan with some Paper City ties.

    I understood that when I used the Buchananite phrase "Speak American" that I'd open myself up to some charges of xenophobia, which have actually been fewer and less intense than I expected. This brief essay, however, was not inspired by an alarm for a creeping foreignness to the American game. If, say, Steve Nichol uses football to describe the sport he coaches or pitch to complain about the surface his team plays on, my cringe reflex is not sparked. That's how Nichol (or any other foreigner) has referred to the game all his life and that's the culture he comes from.

    So-called rule number one was instead dedicated to born and bred American soccer player (primarily middle-class suburbanites such as myself) who grew up playing the game couched in the American soccer culture and verbiage (cleats, field, uniform, etc.) who nevertheless slip into their Madonna-esque British accent to display their sliver of Anglophilia only when talking about soccer.

    But, as the old saying goes, the recovering smoker is often the harshest critic of today's puffers.

    P.S. Westbrook's not in danger of being overrun by "Eurosnobs," just snobs in general. The Mill Side Tavern (Mill Side Tavern!), for example, had a sign outside their bar this summer bragging of "yummy" daiquiris made from freshly-picked strawberries.
     
  22. KaptPowers

    KaptPowers Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Arlington, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is any of this that big a deal? When you're talking about the sport with someone who uses different terms from you, whatever your choice, you both know you're talking about the sport of association football. I've spent plenty of time at places like the Landing and Porter Belly's with ex-pats where they use the Euro terms (pitch, strip, match, keeper, boots) and I use the 'Merican (to use Gallagher's term) ones and like two people who speak different dialects of the same language- we understand each other. Sure you can make jibes about it. Why in the name of heaven is it a "strip" ya Brit? Dunno Yank, wha's a f**kin' "cleat" anyway?

    Especially as far as the team names go. The author defends the Revs' moniker as historically relevant to the region and thusly a legitimate name. I often hear it compared to something from the WNBA by other teams' fans. FC Dallas is kind of plain but would you prefer Dallas Burn? Seriously dude? Much as we've taken "Revolution" and gotten fans and the media to just say "Revs" they've gotten their fans and media to just call them "the Hoops." They got sportswriters in Texas to do that. That's pretty impressive, think about it. With the "Futbol Club" they appeal to the Latino community and with the "Hoops" name they appeal to those with Euro-leaning tendencies. Hell half the time you just see it written "FCD."

    Personally I enjoy our league's mix of "trad" names and 'Merican names. Different traditions are followed in, whisper it quietly, a melting pot of different soccer/football/futbol roots. I'm sorry we don't really have any German style teams or Italians ones so no fussball or calcio. Maybe one day Wisconsin will be home to SV Milwaukee 1846 or the Milwaukee Bavarians will go pro. Anyway when you've got Club Deportivo Chivas USA (despite my feelings regarding their very existence) versus say the Kansas City Wizards or the Toronto Football Club versus the San Jose Earthquakes you're following in American soccer tradition. Look at the US Open Cup winners list sometime. You find the Fall River Marksmen, Maccabi Los Angeles, Brooklyn St. Mary's Celtic, and Club Deportivo Mexico/El Farolito. In 2009 we welcome the Seattle Sounders FC (who you know will just be called "the Sounders") and in 2010 potentially Philadelphia Athletic or Philadelphia Union. It evens out.

    Yes, Real Salt Lake is an abomination born of an owner's well-intentioned but ignorant attempt to put an "authentic" soccer name on his team. However we've all pretty much gotten used to it haven't we? Is it any worse than the Oklahoma City Thunder or Columbus Blue Jackets? Someone actually got paid in the case of the latter I think. RSL's logo is leaps and bounds better than those teams' logos.

    On the articles second and third points I am in 100% agreement.
     

Share This Page