Has USMNT over-exposed MLS under Berhalter?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by adam tash, Jan 31, 2023.

  1. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "That criteria would shut out a slew of the greatest center forwards in history from getting on the field."

    To be fair... we don't have those players. And when it comes to history, the game has evolved. Some of those old, great forwards would likely be expected to run/press more if they played today.
     
    WrmBrnr repped this.
  2. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I dunno if I'd say it overexposed MLS. I think there are players both in MLS and that have recently moved from MLS to Europe that absolutely deserved more of a look before the world cup and do now.

    I think the issue is that Berhalter had favorites that under performed that continued to get shot after shot. .. and I do believe that a big mistake Gregg made was inserting Morris and Long right back into the team after long term injuries without really seeing how they recovered.
     
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  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Messi and Mbappe ran the least at this WC. If the criteria eliminates top quality players, then there is a problem even if we don't have those players. This cycle was a big step back in the way the usmnt plays. It is almost as if they were trying to go backwards.
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nah. Not backwards from the 2018 cycle, seeing what an epic disaster that cycle was. I couldn't tell you what our strategy was in that cycle. People may not like Berhalter's system, but he at least had one. And it got us to the Gold Cup and Nations League titles, and the Round of 16 of the World Cup.

    But we need something else moving forward.
    And that something........MAY NOT get us to the Round of 16 of the World Cup. Cuz that ain't easy.
     
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  5. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disagree slightly. The style can't disqualify players that don't exist for us. Teams all around the world try to replace talent with hard work when the talent isn't there. We don't have a Messi, Mbappe, or anyone close to that level.

    It'd be one thing if we didn't use a highly talented player due to work rate, but since that player doesn't exist, I don't think you can fault a manager for a slight that didn't happen.

    For the faults Berhalter has, I don't think this was one of them. We can't collectly complain about his system not fitting the players and then complain his system didn't fit a player that doesn't exist (in our play pool) in the first place.
     
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  6. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    No personal attacks please.
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would you write this?

    Last cycle: no World Cup
    This cycle: advanced to R16 and lost.

    If we keep going backward at this rate, we'll win it all in 2034 at the latest.

    But, again, why did you write this? Are you TRYING to torch any reputation you might have as a knowledgeable poster? It is almost as if you were trying to go backwards.
     
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  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Results have nothing to do with how the team plays. The coach over prioritized athleticism and work rate. It was a defensive at the expense of offense. This is why the offense was so inept.

    The way we played in 2017 was a step back. Just because Arena screwed the team up doesn't mean that there wasn't progress made in the previous 15 to 20 years.
     
  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude.....seriously??? It's a results based business.

    Would you have rather the US played a progressive and aesthetically pleasing style of soccer but failed to qualify for the World Cup???
     
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  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    WCQ was never in jeopardy. There is no reason we couldn't have made progress toward our ultimate goal graduating to the next level and still gotten out of the group. The coach played scared. We are never going get to the next level until we change the way we approach the game.
     
  11. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't one of the knocks against GGG that he only qualified for the WC on goal differential? It's been put out there that the US "barely" qualified.

    GGG shouldn't have been hired. He needed to go before his first game in charge. That said, he got results in a results based business. To some he barely qualified the US for the World Cup.

    The US need to be an aggressive, hard working defense first team that hits opponents hard on the counter attack, with speed. They also need to be a helluva lot better on set pieces (both attacking and defending). That's how the US will be able to compete with and have a puncher's chance against the top nations in the world. That's the reality of the talent in the player pool.
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I don't get that argument. To pretend that we were quaking in our boots in the last game is ridiculous. A true argument would be to ask why we we didn't get more points than a very sucky Costa Rica.
     
  13. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because Costa Rica knows the strengths of their team and plays to those. They don't try to be something they aren't.

    Sure....the US wasn't "intimidated" by the Netherlands. They also were out of the game before halftime and played into the Netherlands hands the entire game.

    The US is not built to play free flowing attractive, progressive football. Sure they have a 2-3 players that play that way with their club teams, but the USMNT as a collective cannot play that way and have success against the top international teams.
     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    We qualified with all his incompetence. We barely qualified because we played scared and rolled out crappy MLS players.

    Like I said, the team went backwards. Never going to get anywhere doing the same old things.
     
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  15. smontrose

    smontrose Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Aug 30, 2017
    Illinois, NW Suburb
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone have information on how in game performance metrics are used and if/how GB used this data during this cycle?
     
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  16. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he certainly did ...but i assume his "recipe" is confidential
     
  17. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In reply to the question posed by the OP in the thread title: "Has the USMNT over-exposed MLS under Berhalter?"

    Here are the number of caps given to MLS players in the WC and WCQ and the number of caps given overall in the WC and WCQ by the five coaches who have coached the USMNT since the advent of MLS:

    Steve Sampson, 190 of 259 (73.3%)
    Bruce Arena, 355 of 686 (51.7%)
    Bob Bradley, 96 of 300 (32.0%)
    Jurgen Klinsmann, 144 of 388 (37.1%)
    Gregg Berhalter, 100 of 282 (35.4%)

    I don't want to see Berhalter retained, but let's not pretend that he exposed MLS more than his predecessors. Only Bradley exposed it less.
     
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  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yet, Sampson, Arena, and Klinsmann all complained that didn't more players in top leagues and HAD to use MLS players. Berhalter left players from top leagues off WCQ and WC rosters which none of the other coaches did.
     
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  19. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    okay now cross-reference these numbers with number of players in euro leagues lol

    as if the pool is always stable and the balance between domestic and interntional talent never fluctuates lol

    only coach on your list to leave off solid euro-based players is berhalter

    35% may seem low...but its actually very high....

    and total number of MLSers on his WC 9 - is quite similar to the other coaches as well.....so berhalter used the chance to have a deeper roster and squandered it to increase his chances of landing a MLS gig when he leaves USMNT
     
  20. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alfredo Morales, Eric Lichaj, and Jonathan Spector would beg to differ. All had better European resumes than most of the players being excluded now.

    And Morales, when he moved to MLS, showed why neither Klinsmann nor Arena called him up -- he's been mediocre.
     
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  21. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    This whole "We barely qualified because we played too many MLS guys" is non sensical. How many Euro based players do CR, Canada, Mexico, and Panama have? I'd guarantee our MLS guys play in better leagues then most of CR and Panama's players.
    If you think we need 100% Euro based players to beat Panama then you must think Panama is a damn good team. And if you think that then how the heck can you say that qualifying should be a no brainer? Seems you want it both ways. If qualifying should be easy, why do we need our "best" players to do it?
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wrote a fact based post, but neither of you engaged with facts.

    Is that because you can’t?
     
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  23. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #273 adam tash, Feb 9, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    spctor was very good and a key piece of the 2009 run to the final of confed cup ...for instance, he started when the US ended Spain's 36 match unbeaten run with a shutout 2-0 win...same team that won the WC a year later.....no current MLSer from the Qatar roster will have an equal USMNT accomplishment.

    lichaj played well when given the chance with usmnt

    lol lets compare pefok and morales' euro resumes haha......morales barely got off the bench for a bottom table bundesliga team.....pefok just scored the game winner for the first place team in germany.....morales' resume is nowhere close to pefoks...or brooks.....etc

    spin it however you want -berhlater is the first coach in usmnt history to leave off the quality of euro players he did...and all so he could be buddy buddy with his mls pets who were well below the standard needed for success in a WC. its embarrassing.
     
  24. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Didn't Pefok just score for the first time since September? Good for him but doesn't exactly convince me he would've succeeded at the World Cup.
     
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  25. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thats not the point.....he's better than the MLSers...

    lollol......do you reeally think pefok would have been worse than ferreira against the dutch/????? pefok is atually a target forward....and proven at that level. . .....


    and so is the rest of the euro contingent berhalter ignored.....I cant beleive people arent upset about what berhalter did in terms of roster conctruction but instead would rather cast doubt on the players berhalter left home.
     

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