What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Feels like it is a salary negotiation ploy.
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And he turned it down ultimately


    New Zealand really thought they had him though

    1620781696126947328 is not a valid tweet id
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    IMO that move would've been to Canada's benefit. And probably NZ's as well, as it's likely that they will be the minnowiest minnow of the tournament, and Herdman at least has WC experience. I'm really not sure just how much one could expect him to successfully evolve his approach with Canada...
     
  5. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    The question is whether Ancelotti would have been the next one.
     
  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
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  7. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Is he the first Canadian to score in La Liga?
     
  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    There was Julian De Guzman who also scored in La Liga
     
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  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if Canada had lost Herdman to New Zealand specifically, that would have been a very poor indictment of Canada Soccer given he'd be leaving for what's clearly a worse job. In that situation I'd be concerned about their ability to adequately replace him.

    There are some rumors that Leeds have him on their list. Him going there would make sense and not something I'd blame the Canadian Soccer Association for.

    If he were to leave, there's not an obvious clear cut replacement and CSA if also not as well funded as USSF and there'd be question of what they could afford to pay a new coach.

    Too early. He's not leaving Real Madrid to coach anyone, but once he leaves Real Madrid (contract is up in 2024), that's when he might have actual interest.
     
  10. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    I'm happy Herdman is staying. While he was outcoached in the World Cup, he's been a revelation in all other aspects. I doubt we could afford a decent replacement.

    It's like trading an established star for a draft pick, with no guarantee it would have turned into a better situation.
     
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  11. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Canada has enough talent that they'd have been able to attract another top coach.
    I'd have had no concerns if Herdman left.

    Herdman isn't Arsene Wenger

    In fact, I thought his tactics were naive at best at the World Cup. Thought he could play against those nations like he could against Curacao.

    People have Berhalter on FULL BLAST on these boards as an apparent moron and buffoon. He's holding the Gold Cup and Nations League trophies, and led the USMNT to the Round of 16. Meanwhile in 2022 Herdman and Canada lost to Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras, and finished as one of the worst teams at the World Cup. When you look at their results in 2022..............they weren't particularly good. I guess Herdman gets a total pass. Yes, he had a tough group at the World Cup. Guess what? There are no easy groups at the World Cup. Let's see if they can actually advance to the knockout round of the Nations League. That would be a new development for him.

    If I was the CSA and Herdman came to me with a "Pay me or I'm going to New Zealand" ultimatum..................I'd drive him to the airport myself.

    Sorry, I'm not negative about the Canada's position right now. I'm very positive about the future. But this nonsense of "what would they do without Herdman?!" is ridiculous.
     
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  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  14. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    But can they afford to pay a top coach and possibly pay out Herdman's contract if they decided to dump him? Nope. We're broke.
     
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  15. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Frustrating player. Hopefully he can figure out how to use his brain more than 50% of the time next season.
     
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except they wouldn't have to pay him if Herdman left to take another job.
     
  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  18. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I can see why Montagliani wouldn't meet with him. He already had a plan for Canadian Soccer (CPL and League 1 Canada) and Marsch seemed like he wanted to make the MLS academies the central point of his plan.
     
  19. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Loans from non-top 5 leagues to the top 5 leagues don 't happen often do they?
    I guess Brugge being a regular CL attendee and Vallalodid being relegation fodder makes sense.
     
  20. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    To bring in a new coach with a new philosophy and expect to elevate their game in a World Cup even at home may be a bit tricky.

    Having the guy who built up the team to try and just tweak things and build upon what he established is probably better for Canada.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Herdman's a good coach. He made a rookie mistake. The Canadian Federation should be able to figure out pretty quick if he's learned from it.
     
  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Copa America seems like it’ll be a good test of it.

    More broadly I’d want to see Canada consistently be in the top 3 for Gold Cup and Nations League between now and then.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    For me, not winning one of the 2 cups this year is a fail.
     
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  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A one off game is hard to judge too much if you lose. More concerning would be if Canada were to stumble and not make the Nations League finals or not make at least the semis of the Gold Cup. If they made the final of either and say lose to Mexico, it's hard to be too upset about that.
     
  25. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It isn't backed up by counting stats but its more than reasonable to argue that this past cycle it was:

    #1. USA
    #2. Canada
    #3. Mexico
    #4. Costa Rica

    and at the World Cup I'd put Mexico dead last. Yes, they were second by virtue of points, and goal difference but when you look at performance.

    Group difficulty rankings:
    #1 Canada
    #2 Costa Rica
    #3 USA
    #4 Mexico

    Canada out xG'd Belgium and Morocco (performed better in my view too), and imploded against Croatia playing too aggressively after the early lead. Not a successful tournament, but a group with two WC semifinalists and a Semifinalist from WC '18 and they out XG'd 2 of 3 opponents? I know nobody is gonna agree but that's more impressive than Mexico ----ing the bed against Poland, getting soundly beaten by Argentina, and then struggling with the Saudi's until they finally took control of the match.

    Costa Rica got the piss beaten out of them by Spain, but then beat a Japanese team that did not lose in regulation in any other match in the tournament despite playing Spain, Germany and semifinalist Croatia. Then they actually took a 2-1 lead on Germany and were 30 minutes away from making the knockouts before the roof caved in. Again, WAY better than Mexico.

    The US ---- the bed against Netherlands, but were dominant oddly in all of the first halves of their games and were the only side to make the knockouts.

    To me, the US won the regional competitions in the cycle, Canada won the qualifying, and Mexico were the worst of the 4 sides at the World Cup in terms of performance, if not results.

    They stink.

    I don't get it (beyond the old and conservative approach angle, and stubborness of Tata), but for whatever reason, the team has clearly fallen off badly this cycle and it does make you wonder based on the hex, if not the WC, if there's something fundamentally going wrong with Mexican development from teenagers to professionals because they have plenty of U17/U20/U23 silverware going back to the aughts, but they have turned very few of those players into relevant national team talent. You compare that to how many of our current young stars left footprints at the U17 and U20 and U23 level and it's night and day.

    If Canada can get some depth and stay healthy, they'll be #2. I don't know what to think of Costa Rica. They were utter ----- in 2021, hot garbage, Honduras was much better that summer, then the second half of qualifying and the WC they made a legit run of outstanding performances but there has been so little turnover of a very old roster one can't help but think they're due to fall off badly and would've missed the '26 WC like they missed '10 and '98 if not for the fact that that so many concacaf teams will have tickets.
     
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