Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    I would like the next manager to be someone that, in addition to being a good manager, will feel personally invested in the success of the USMNT (and being personally invested simply in his or her own success is not the same). So Mourinho, for example will never actually care whether the Nats do well or not. He might care about his own rep, but that’s the extent of it.

    I think this is particularly important this cycle because absolutely nothing is at stake in the results until 2026. Someone looking mostly for an easy gig would love to mange the US.

    This doesn’t limit the pool to ‘Mercians, but I sure hope the next coach convinces me that they want the US to win more than they just want to be a cool manager.
     
    tomásbernal repped this.
  4. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry can't have any useful discussion if you deliberately misrepresent Rangnick's Red Bull philosophy, which has been incredibly successful, and then mischaracterize Jesse's implementation of said philosophy. Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Hasenhuttl, along with Marsch have all cited Rangnick's influence or consider themselves flat out disciples The philosophy is heavy pressure/counter pressure and very fast transitions after winning the ball. The video I linked illustrate how RBL plays.

    I am glad that Sacha Kljestan came out and gave his opinion on Marsch's style of play and flexibility. Jesse absolutely modified his principles to take advantage of Sacha's creative skills by moving to a 4-2-3-1 with Sacha as a CAM in front of a double 6. It paid off with NYRB winning the supporters' shield and Marsch Coach of the Year.

    Why exactly does putting a premium on width mean and why is it valuable? I want a manager who will put a premium on selecting the right players and winning matches.
     
  5. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How exactly will you know or measure that fact?
     
  6. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Beforehand? Not sure. I guess you just have to look at their history and make it an objective of any interview.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    This is a bizarre post.

    I've literally said that Jesse and Red Bull apply pressure, counterpress and counter/transition very quickly and directly. I know exactly how Red Bull play.

    I have no idea what your objection to my description is at this point. Is is that I said they play narrow? They do?

    Like literally, what is your objection to this statement?

    The first half of it is exactly what you said.

    The idea that simply moving to a 4231 was a change in philosophy is ridiculous. They were very Red Bull.

    Your second sentence is such a ridiculous non-sequitir.

    As for the first, width is valuable.

    Quality defenses in soccer now focus very much on being compact, cohesive, and protecting the middle and Zone 14. You can be incredibly hard to score against if you maintain a shape with small distances in between you, as dribblers and passers don't have any lanes to get through. Analytics and common sense tell you to protect the middle, as the angles required to score from the outside make it easy on goalkeepers and defense.

    As such, a key premise of any successful defense these days is to shrink the field. Good defenses that stay back stay ultra compact to protect the box -- Sean Dyche even gives it a subset of the box he calls the V. More aggressive defenses do it via pressing -- basically putting pressure on the ball and passing lanes to not allow time to go over the top or find the open space.

    It's the same premise for using a high line -- use the off side rule to shrink the field.

    Because you always have 10 outfield players. But if you can shrink the space they cover, it's easier.

    Modern offenses are basically designed to do one of two things: either score BEFORE the defense is in place and compact, or move and stretch the defense to force them to cover a larger space, thereby creating holes for passing and dribbling to go through.

    The best offenses do both.

    Red Bull really focuses on the first one, transition. As Jurgen Klopp says, transition play is the best 10 in the world. Or something like that.

    And transition is important. But if the defense is back, and you try to take the most direct route through the middle, it's really tough going in transition or possession. And there are some teams that simply won't commit their defenders up.

    Effective width to your tactical plan pulls defenders out of the penalty box. It forces movement and reaction and creates a larger field to cover. You want to hit a through ball into the box with a runner, and that's great, but if half the defense is there, there isn't room. Now pull out a couple of them to deal with wide play, and suddenly there's more space in the middle and on the other side.

    Marsch's tactics really focus on immediate movement to goal and going through the middle. He does that because it is the fastest way to goal and it is vastly more effective to attack from zone 14 or the box than from the side. And he also does it because if all his players are rushing to the middle ... and all the defense in clogging the middle, when they do lose it, the players are in place for an effective counterpress, turnover and another attempt at transition.

    It's not a bad plan. But it tends to lack a plan B. It tends to get really flummoxed by teams that take few risks -- transition offense is often easier against better teams. It allows the defense to really clog the space.

    I like the pressing, counterpressing, and transition is vital. I think his teams tend way too direct, give up the ball too much in bad situations, and struggle more than they should in possession.

    And I don't think he has a plan B or a willingness to adapt.

    You've shown over the years here a massive selectiveness with your choice of evidence. You can toss Sacha out all you want, but there's quotes in that article itself that disagrees.

    And even more damning, even though you ignore it every time I post, Marsch himself has basically said he's not wanting to adjust.

    I don't think he's a dishonest man, so if he came into an interview and said that he's changed his mind, his losses have made him realize he needs to be more flexible, needs to do XYZ, etc. that'd be great. But on the evidence we have, I think it is a significant concern for a coach that I otherwise like quite a bit.

    I also think we should pursue a tactical set that includes a more comprehensive plan for playing with possession. I don't mean we should be a massive possession team; I just want a tactical plan that has more focus and more of a plan for that phase of play. I think relying too much on transition OR possession OR set pieces for scoring is a mistake; I think the best offenses are versatile in how they score.
     
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  8. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good news that another American coach has a job in a top five league



    Good news that Belgium won’t be competition for any coach we may want

     
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  9. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    He's insisting that Marsch is a versatile coach and that Berhalter is an inflexible ideologue despite the fact that Berhalter has drastically changed his approach over the years, just showed different game plans from game to game, and made in game adjustments that changes his team's shape and approach at the World Cup while Marsch has basically played the same way for years and has not really shown nearly as much variance. Um, okay.................
     
  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, I'm going to be watching that. His weird coaching stuff plus the dysfunctional Belgium together.
     
  11. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's easy. Hannover is a dumpster fire since Chero left. They dropped to BL2 immediately after and have stayed there ever since. In his interviews he says he left Germany because youth development was too often about immediate results. I suspect that this was a reference to Hannover where he was u-17 coach.
     
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  12. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I think you are making contradictory statements. I don't think that was your intent but I am not sure how any coach would be truly invested in the success of the USMNT that isn't an American. And I don't make this about the US either. I'd say the same thing about any national team.

    And I am also not sure that it makes any difference when it comes to success. Is a manager who deep down cares about the national team's success going to really do a better job than a manager who deep down cares about their resume? The USMNT is going to be a high visibility job given that we host COPA 2024 and WC 2026. Any coach will be pretty dang driven to get the USMNT at their best.

    Now that said, I prefer we get the best available manager we can. BUT I don't discount a candidates ability to communicate with our players and a candidates nationality as factors. Not critical ones but not throw away criteria either.
     
  13. Kirium

    Kirium Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Edmond, OK
    Isn't Brooks at Hoffenheim?

    So Matarrazzo will be his coach now. Interesting.
     
  14. Red Card

    Red Card Member+

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FWIW, I would like a coach that follows these 2 simple KISS (keep it simple stupid) strategy principles from simple games:

    1. Rock-Paper-Scissors. Any strategy in soccer can be stopped by another strategy. So a team should be adept at 3 strategies. If plan A is being stopped, go to B. If B is being stopped go to C. If C is being stopped go back to A.

    2. Tic-Tac-Toe. Putting your mark in the center box gives you the most options offensively and defensively (also the same in chess). In soccer, control of the center circle and surrounding area is necessary to control the game. Use an extra midfielder if needed to control the center circle and surrounding area.
     
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  15. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    Just looked into the financial statements for US Soccer. Wow.

    We can afford whoever we damn well want.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say we can even afford to hire someone through Copa America 2024, realize we screwed up, and hire someone else.

    As of March 2021, the federation had over $130 million in cash and investment assets that could easily be sold. The notes defined investments as "fixed income securities, such as corporate bonds, U.S. treasury notes, U.S. government agency obligations, equity and fixed income mutual funds and invested cash and cash equivalents."

    And that's before the influx of cash we will see from Copa America 2024 and the World Cup itself.

    Source: https://www.ussoccer.com/governance/financial-information
    (2021 audited financial statements PDF, pages 5 and 11)
     
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  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Those were one time windfalls and they aren't going to use $30M of it on an expense.

    They also dropped about $24M in operating cash flows in 2021, so I think there's a question of how stable their income is.

    I'd expect us to cap salary in the $5-6M range.
     
  17. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    There would be some huge push-back from the Women's side if there were huge differences in coaches salaries too.
     
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  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yeah.

    I think people miss that that surplus -- of which I'd bet there's only about $100M really there -- is going to be something that will be committed across the needs of the whole Federation.

    There's youth associations that struggle with funding every year. We run basically one top level coaching seminar a year. We have pay to play. We have youth teams and the most successful women's program in the world.

    We're not going to drop half of it on buying out and hiring ultra-expensive men's coaches.

    It was originally mostly earmarked for the national training center, anyway.
     
  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Much like your defense of Berhalter playing Trapp over Adams at DM, you post a lot of words that really have nothing to do with soccer or frankly any real understanding of how the game is actually played.

    There is nothing in the Rangnick RB philosophy that dictates that the team has to play or counter through the middle. Zip, zero, nada. Again that is why I posted their top 10 goals clip. You are either making that up or you have no idea what you are looking at.

    Jesse's Leeds can look narrow on offense but that is because they don't have any EPL quality effective wide attackers. That is personnel based not system based.

    The rest of your long winded post is the same pseudo technical mumbo jumbo that you spouted to justify why Berhalter should play Trapp over Adams at DM. It is the kind of nonsense that sounds good on paper, but is just silly on a soccer pitch.

    Anyone who actually watched Marsch's NYRB teams could track clear adjustments. They played very different and very direct, often 4-2-2-2 before Sacha. When they brought Sacha on they switched to a CAM-driven 4-2-3-1 system with Sacha pulling the strings and chalking up MLS-leading assists. After Sacha, Jesse went back to a more direct 4-2-2-2 ish scheme.

    Jesse won The Supporters Shield in 2015 with Sacha as a string pulling CAM and the Shield again in 2018 plying a more hardcore transition style after Sacha left.

    He will adjust based on the players at his disposal.
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #2745 gogorath, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
    I'm done here. I think all of your last three responses have failed to engage on even the basic of a respectful manner.

    You aren't even really reading what I am saying or engaging on any terms. I've explained my point. You've come back with insults and the same arguments that fail to address anything I've really said.

    Just stating things, and weirdly going back to something I've never even said on Wil Trapp and Tyler Adams.

    There's about six articles and four videos in this thread highlighting the issues. A top 10 goal over a decade is an irrelevant point. There's Jesse's own words on his flexibility which you've intentionally ignored over and over.

    Take up your argument with Jesse. Or Bielsa -- he ran an offense with the same personnel that absolutely used width. But he's just an offensive genius.

    I don't dislike Marsch at all, but pretending he's a flexible coach so you can try to dunk on Berhalter is almost as nuts as your obsession with Klinsy.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    From the Athletic:

    https://theathletic.com/4164372/202...eds-united/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983
    • There's no rush to hire a coach, though most of the info seems to go back to Cone's prior press conference
    • Earnie's role as defined had a lot of responsibilities that many potential hires won't want to do (like overseeing refereeing or youth technical development which require a lot of politicking with other groups)
    • The women's side is seen as working well -- Markgraf handles the senior and youth teams but some of the less glamorous work falls to Earnie. McBride had little responsibility past club coordination.
    • So one possibility is a Women's GM, a parallel Men's GM and a third person in charge of the larger Federation elements, all on a flat hierarchy reporting to Baston.
     
  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And if the 2024 Copa America is as successful as the last US-hosted Copa America, and if the 2026 World Cup is as successful as the last US-hosted World Cup... we are going to get more Copa Americas and World Cups hosted in the US in the future, because Conmebol and FIFA love making money. And as successful is being extremely conservative: we know that both will almost certainly be far more successful than the previous tournaments.
    So that kind of negates the "one time windfall" argument... it will be "three times" just by 2026 (so two more in just the next three years!), and there will likely be even more "windfalls" after that.
     
  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if that third job was the one McBride wanted to put in for before Stewart also decided to leave and now everything is being analyzed.
     
  24. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham

    I don't think it's contradictory, but a manager from the US is probably more likely to satisfy this wish.

    It's really more about avoiding some shiny tactician that doesn't feel significant internal pressure to win and assumes (largely true) there won't be much external pressure either.
     
    ifsteve repped this.
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The 2024 Copa America was such a windfall for US Soccer because the other parties involved, i.e. CONMEBOL, took guaranteed payment and gave the upside to US Soccer.

    I assume we will make some money on it, but it won't be as much. I assume US Soccer knows the number.

    To my knowledge, FIFA grabs the money for the 2026 World Cup. How much USSF gets isn't really out there, but consensus seems to be not much.

    Sponsorships are largely locked in, but they aren't all upsides. There's no qualifying, and I think there's a limit on what US Soccer can even run during the World Cup. US Soccer can't have Pepsi ads sponsoring US Soccer if FIFA is getting Coke ads, I believe.

    There was already a media guy noting how the US media contract was lower than you'd expect because the inventory was not as good -- no qualifying.

    So Copa America will be something, but less. The World Cup may not actually be an immediate positive financially for the Fed (long term, one would hope increased interested leads to better deals).
     

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