MLS Flavors of the week 2023 edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 24, 2022.

  1. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Feels like a game Seattle would win for sure if they weren’t in preseason.

    As it stands could go either way.
     
    Chesco United repped this.
  2. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seattle lose 1-0 on a deflected shot. But it was really deserved. They got overran in the 2nd half.

    You can't with any confidence make that statement. They looked lackluster from the beginning of the 2nd half, after being shaky in the 1st, against an under-aggressive Al Alhy side. They amped up their pressure, and the Sounders couldn't handle it.

    And while being out of season is a caveat, they haven't earned that as being an excuse as much, when they have rules in place that inherently impede depth to lead to these fades, as well as have holesy lineups.

    Vis a vis Seattle specifically, how did they not fortify before this tourney to try and represent themselves well? They made no upgrades.
     
    Chesco United and jaykoz3 repped this.
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Eh, Sounders were the better side until they started to tire. Leyva for Roldan really hurt them. The Al-Ahly goal was pretty damn bad luck.

    The reality is at this level, goal scoring is often the gap. Weren't good enough in the final third and then got unlucky.
     
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  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do you attribute tiring to the Sounders' drop-off at the beginning of the 2nd half, after they had just gotten a rest?

    The moderate advantage the Sounders had in the first half was exceeded by multiple times in favor Al Ahly in the 2nd half. So that's not very much luck.

    Why should we not talk about the Sounders' and many MLS' lack of depth because of a low salary cap with all these individual exceptions to exceed it? You say they made a change that hurt them. Most teams will make changes that helps them because you get fresh legs on, and a liability off.

    2nd half collapses have been common for MLS teams in inter-league competitions. And if there's something specific that they're doing to cause that, they shouldn't always get results dismissed for them being out of season. Fix the additional problems, then maybe that excuse would go down smoother. Because it's only a partial explanation as is. And we never know what the % is.
     
  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think them tiring in the second half makes sense given they were in preseason. Fitness is likely to fade and key players won’t be able to go 90. The reason that second half collapses have been common is because a lot of CCL games have been played during preseason and early in CCL.

    And I’d be surprised if Al Ahly spends more on players than Seattle. The lack of depth argument make more sense against the bigger Mexican teams, but those salary gaps continue to close as well. MLS teams are still more too heavy than Liga MX teams, but not as much vis a vis a team like Al Ahly.
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Normal ebbs and flows of a game. Then tiredness later on of an unfit team.

    It's one game with a lot of extenuating circumstances. People try to extrapolate too much from stuff like this.
     
  7. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, Seattle was quite poor in league play after CCL last season. I could be wrong, but I just don't see how Seattle will be a serious contender in MLS this season. Their core is aging out.

    IF they were in midseason....Seattle may have been able to see it out to PK's against Al Ahly. Al Ahly wasn't great either in this game.
     
  8. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought it was an interesting match with both squads playing the way they wanted to play. Seattle was clearly well drilled and followed their scouting report because they were always positioned to disrupt Al Ahly's tika-taka. Seattle seemed to know where the 3rd pass would go.

    The match suffered from a lack of cutting edge individual brilliance, Seattle's key personnel did not do much of anything and Ruidaz was never a threat in the match. I'm sure that JP is now their key straw stirrer, when he is missing they just don't have the same relentless effectiveness. It is worth mentioning that according to the match commentators Al Ahly did not start their 2 top attackers but brought them on late in the 2nd half.

    IMO, a good showing by Seattle in their first CWC but they need to refresh their attack if they intend to compete for MLS Cup this season. Morris and Loderio have both lost at least 1/2 a step and continue to not look as dangerous as in the recent past.
     
  9. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well so much for "make the Club World up and play against Real Madrid"....
    Didn't they JUST sign Jordan Morris and Cristian Roldan both to like five year contracts?

    Yes, yes they did...

    January 19, 2023:
    Seattle Sounders sign Morris, Roldan to five-year deals
     
  10. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Preseason, fellas. Preseason...
     
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  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    This is most likely true.
     
  12. melatoninlol

    melatoninlol Member

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Oct 27, 2019
    Near Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heber was signed (pretty cheaply at that) to provide some depth and a different look than Ruidiaz since he's been injured a lot the past few seasons. The main issue is that the team has very little flexibility within MLS rule structure to make moves with all the signings they've done in the last few years, which i suspect is one reason Garth decided to leave. We have some older guys that can be off the books after this year, which should lead to the badly needed but likely painful refresh.

    I imagine we'll sneak into the playoffs but not do too much this year, and then probably end up having Rusnak take over Lodeiro's spot as the 10 next year. We also very badly need Leo Chu to seriously push Morris for more playing time, Morris to get back to his 2016 peak (unlikely at this point), or one of the kids to make a big leap (here's hoping RBW gets some shots, but he's more likely to deputized at LB/RB i think, especially if Nouhou finally gets sold).
     
    largegarlic repped this.
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good thing you just re-signed Morris for another five years
    [​IMG]
     
  14. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Her" is Morris' dog?
     
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. To be fair, they weren't a serious contender in MLS last season. They were the 21st best team in the league on points. :)

    They earned fewer points in the league than the expansion team Charlotte.

    Seattle fans will try to twist themselves into knots explaining how that wasn't a true reflection of their talent. The season is too long for it not to be a pretty accurate reflection.

    They do have a big group of intriguing young homegrown players (Vargas, Atencio, Baker-Whiting, Leyva, and others). That's why I'm interested in Seattle for 2023. Hopefully they continue to get time.
     
  17. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then Gregg named two players, Morris and Roldan, from the 21st best MLS team on points, that earned fewer points than expansion team Charlotte, and whose point total was a pretty accurate reflection over a long season, to his 26 man World Cup squad, after the conclusion of their pretty bad 2022 season... only Nashville also had two, but tiebreaker goes to Seattle with former homegrown Yedlin.
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    What I'd say in the defense of Nashville players is that Zimmerman played a crucial role in qualifying (after Robinson and Richards went down with injuries), and Moore played surprisingly well at the Gold Cup (in which he played in every game). So at least those two had a recent track record of playing well in games that mattered.

    [Of course Zimmerman was drafted/developed by FCD as a teen and Shaq Moore spent time in the FCD academy. So us FCD fans also claim them. Shaq Moore is probably 3rd string on my personal Dallas right back depth chart, though..............after Cannon and Reynolds. I'd start Zimmerman next to Richards.]
     
  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one has to defend Zimmerman, he earned the starting job. The only question was who would start alongside him with the Robinson/Richards injuries, and fortunately Tim Ream stepped up to become our best CB and we were spared Aaron Long who would likely have been a disaster.

    I'm not sure how you would even read my comment and think a defense of Zimmerman was needed, I only mentioned Nashville because they were the only other MLS team with two players on the roster. But at least Nashville was good in 2022, unlike Seattle. And no one is arguing that Zimmerman didn't earn his spot. Morris and Roldan (and perhaps Moore), far more questionable. As in very questionable vs not really at all. Zimmerman is also the only one of those four who has actual leadership qualities... vague Roldan "vibes" nonsense doesn't count.
     
  20. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Many doubted that the LA Galaxy could find a winger as mediocre as Kevin Cabral... what do they have to say now

     
  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure I believe this... Alan Sonora is a free agent so what does "with a purchase option" even mean here?



    "FC Juárez signs brothers Alan and Joel Soñora: both arrive for one year and with a purchase option."

     
  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't have picked either player, but the question with Morris is whether anything about the World Cup run would have been different if Paul Arriola had gone instead (who was the other main competitor for that spot). Similarly I wouldn't have picked Roldan, but the question is would an alternative pick have gotten minutes in the World Cup (Williamson, Pomykal, Tillman, etc).
     
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I personally had both Tillman and Arriola in my team.
    Arriola unquestionably had a better 2022 than Morris.

    Whether people like it or not, making the WC roster was a reward for Roldan shlepping it around Central American nations for WCQers without playing much.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would have taken Arriola and Tillman as well. But I also don't think they would have made a difference between winning or losing versus the Netherlands.
     
  25. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched the game and they missed so many easy passes they normally connect. A lot of attacks died before they could get started. They needed subs earlier. It reminds me of Gregg leaving on dead legged starters.

    I believe this is a unique situation, one team on game ~16 since November and the other on game 1. The Sounders would have to be twice as good to be expected to win going uphill like that.


    Based on what I saw. A fully fit Sounders would have been far more dangerous going forward at least even if there's no result guarantee.
     
    RalleeMonkey and gomichigan24 repped this.

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