Giovanni “Gio” Reyna national team discussion (from YA)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by gogorath, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. honest trade

    honest trade Member

    Aug 15, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The good news is that Gregg found a way to motivate Gio to play with a chip on his shoulder and excel in a super sub role. The bad news is that it’s after the WC and, at least for Gregg, likely cost him his job and resulted in personal embarrassment.
     
  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Did not reference toxic anything and I am 100% fine w/you seeing things differently. Hell, the quoted post is just me ruminating on an idea, not laying down fundamental talking points.
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Add in that McKennie was clearly only 50-60 minutes match fit. Didn't Musah also come in with a bit of a knock? And de la Torre was in that sort of McKennie zone at minimum.

    We still did have a string of good health for this team, but Reyna, #1 CB, 60% McKennie, and not overly fit other central midfielders ... it wasn't really top health.

    That 60% McKennie definitely created a ton of issues.

    (And of course, that's before throwing in Sam Vines! How could we forget Sam?)
     
  4. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. If only you didn't have to select players that were injured. Or, if they appeared injured or poor in training you could change them for a player that was in form. Oh well, a guy can dream.../s

    Gio is a very good player. We needed him at the WC. A very average coach, with very average results everywhere, did what meh coaches do; he kinda/sorta performed.
     
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  5. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Terzac is driving the car that Gregg couldn't find in the parking lot and had left the keys under a pillow in the lobby of the hotel.
     
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  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Egg overachieved.

    Our starters were ok, but our bench was trash.

    PS: And no, there were no better options. As usual we're going to have 5X guys battling relegation with respect to the ones fighting for a Champions League spot.
     
  7. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013

    That's a nice joke. Gregg motivated Gio to play well for Dortmund, Dortmund's coaching staff is sending him flowers and chocolate for his efforts. Whatever happens to Gregg is caused by his gloating performance at the leadership conference. And I, actually, believe that as a coach he had full rights to play or not to play Gio.
    That's not the issue. Gregg is a bad guy, and shouldn't be coaching the NT.
     
  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not convinced our pool was any healthier at this WC than it has been typically been. The only time I would say we were particularly lucky with players' health was 2002, when JOB was coming off the only injury-free club season of his entire career, and Cherundolo was the only player in the top 25 or so who was injured when the tournament started.

    DLT was probably in worse shape than McKennie. He had not played in almost a month due to injury when the World Cup started, was listed as day-to-day during the week of pre-WC training, and on the day of the Wales game he was listed as being out until 11/23. I think that's the reason Acosta ended up being the sub for McKennie even though we know he's not an 8 at national team level.

    We were panicking over the CB pool being wiped out by injuries, and lucked out with Tim Ream hitting the best form of his career in the fall. If not for Ream's renaissance, we'd have been paper-thin at CB.
     
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  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Aaronson was Wes’s replacement except when Pulisic got injured, so it could have been the plan then too.
     
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  10. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    My point when I talked about injuries was that literally all 6 of our top 6 wing forwards went down between 2021 and 2022, and all 6 of them were available for the WC.

    At striker: Sargent, Pefok, Ferreira, and Dike had all been injured over the past 18 months, only Pepi had seemingly been healthy throughout and by the world cup, all were healthy, even Dike was training again.

    At CM: McKennie had been injured what, 3 separate times in the previous 18 months, Adams had his entire '19 wiped out and had been sporadically injured since, Musah had been injured multiple times including in September and all 3 were healthy in time for the Cup.

    At FB every single FB we had was healthy and available save Vines,all of them were healthy, Dest had missed big chunks of time repeatedly, and Jedi had been hurt too.

    At Keeper turner was healthy and that was what mattered (heck, Steffen getting hurt when he did in '21-'22 helped save us from Steffen's keeping issues).

    At CB yes, we lost Richards, and Robinson, but were otherwise healthy.

    Typically touranment to tournament we're not this healthy and just as important, we had been ridiculously injured all over the place throughout '19, throughout '21 and even '22. Somehow, someway, we weren't in November '22 except for at CB and even there we had basically our #2, #4-#8 CB's, and it was one of our deepest positions in terms of floor talent after WF (and w/wing forward, all I need to say: Pulisic-always hurt, Weah hasn't had a consistently healthy season since '18-'19, Reyna was finally recovered enough to come just in time, Aaronson was healthy again, Arriola was back and healthy, Morris was back and healthy, this was a position where literally every single one of our top 6 guys had been hurt in '21, or '22 or both).

    We were lucky. We won't be again in '26, that luck just doesn't happen on the regular.
     
  11. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wes was subbed every match, pulisic was injured in the third match and aaronson wasnt used centrally until the second half of the netherlands match. im not sure how you reconcile that with any plan...
     
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  12. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    It's not that GB didn't tell him his role would be limited, but that we have no idea what limited meant. And my point was more about why Gio might be dealing differently now with a more limited role than he did at the WC. It might not be a simple as you suggest (GB icompetent nepotism potato vs competent and successful Terzic).
     
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  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could that possibly be the result of the different man management techniques of Gregg and Terzic?


    Also still waiting for the list of coaches that had success at the World Cup after telling certain players after the rosters were announced but before the tournament started that they would have a very limited role... just how common is this practice, and how successful?
     
  14. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    It could. It could also be the result of Gio learning from his WC experience.

    Are you expecting this list from me? I doubt anyone can provide you this list (and you know that) - doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    Personally, I don't think GB should've told Reyna before the WC that he would have a limited role. Demotivating a player before a ball is kicked, when nobody knows what the game(s) situations will be, was not a smart move.
     
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  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Sure so in 3/4 matches Aaronson came on for Wes and then in the one he didn’t he came on earlier for an injured Pulisic (so not a planned sub, unlike Wes). So it stands to reason that there was a good chance the plan was to sub Aaronson for Wes in 4/4 matches.
     
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  16. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I feel that when a player is not fit enough to sprint once over almost 2 weeks and is only cleared to play 15 mins in a last minute fitness test that there is some cause to let that player know that they will be in a limited role prior to a tuneup scrimmage.
     
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  17. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Why? What good does it do?

    You seem to be making some assumptions here. Or at least mentioning things I haven't heard reported. Was Gio not aware his fitness was so poor? If it was so bad he hadn't sprinted for two weeks you'd think he'd know and not take the news so bad. I don't think he was fully fit, but he'd already been playing longer minutes with BVB. I imagine he even sprinted a few times.

    To me GB didn't handle it great and Gio was incredibly unprofessional in his response.
     
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  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    No kidding.

    But no matter what we say, the people you're arguing with don't care.

    Gio Reyna had zero goals and zero assists for the USMNT in 2022. ZERO. A non-factor.
    That's not due to talent or Gregg's decisions. Its because he was never fit and available in the run-up to the WC.

    We were all talking about it on these boards. We were all concerned about the fact that he was returning JUST in time for the WC. There were some who didn't think he should be named to the squad at all.

    My personal opinion is that Gregg would have been better off not selecting Reyna at all. If he'd have picked Tillman instead of Reyna, and said it was due to Gio's fitness issues...........we'd all have said "Yeah, OK." Instead he took the player without a real plan to use him, and that led to this mess.

    But in all honesty, it was Gio's inability to handle his role that led to this disaster. Cuz I've been on plenty of sports teams. Maybe others on this board haven't. Yes, before a major event................a coach makes sure players know their roles. Do people think a coach doesn't tell the backup quarterbacks that they're going to backups? I was told by coaches I really respected that my role would be limited. That I wasn't going to start in tournaments. You either accept it or don't. But if you really can't accept it, then turn down the invitation. Don't go to the event and sulk. Be a great teammate.
     
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  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The way GGG handled the situation is the issue. That Reyna was going to get limited minutes was not the issue.
     
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  20. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well there are these inconvenient facts:

    Before the World Cup:
    I have bolded the word "before" please pay close attention to it!

    And of course right after the World Cup he started and played the whole game in a friendly just a week after Netherlands and scored a goal... and is now scoring like a goal every 25 minutes.

    So if Reyna had zero goals/assists for the US in 2022, but was playing and scoring goals for Dortmund before the World Cup, but then was told he would play a very limited role at the World Cup and sulked, but then was playing for Dortmund right after the World Cup and scoring goals... doesn't seem like that reflects very well on Gregg Berhalter as the coach!
     
  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think people are once again memory holing just how many minutes Reyna was playing before the World Cup... earlier it was claimed that "he didn't play a single full 90" when he was playing 45-60 minutes a lot of games, and 87 minutes vs Man City.... Reminder that Reyna then got a total of 7 minutes across the three group stage games for the US. If that's because Reyna threw a tantrum after Gregg told him he would have a "very limited role" that's one thing, but he was playing regularly, and even scoring goals. Just as was again right after the World Cup.

     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    No. It meant that he planned to use other guys ALSO playing in top leagues like Pulisic, Weah, Aaronson, Musah, McKennie, and company.

    Nobody is disputing Reyna's talent level. Now or then. Of course, he's going to be doing well in the Bundesliga.

    We are to the point with the USMNT that really talented players have to sit. They're going to be key players on important teams in big leagues................but for the USMNT they have to be on the bench.

    A player like Aaronson has a very different skill set to Reyna. If that's what Berhalter wants off the bench, then that's what he wants. Aaronson was playing in the knockout stages of the Champions League with Salzburg and starting in the Premier League.................but not starting for the USMNT. I didn't hear him complain once. I didn't hear Scally from the Bundesliga complain once. I haven't heard de la Torre, coming off of a really nice season in Holland, complain once. I can keep going.

    [And don't give me this Jordan Morris nonsense. He only played a few minutes on the wing.]

    And yes, that can cause serious problems behind the scenes. Much better teams than the USMNT have had bigger meltdowns because the backups couldn't handle being the backups. (France and Holland in the past were specialists in this.)
     
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  23. Seanin

    Seanin Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    Reyna also appeared in the England match, right?

    I think it’s great that he’s making a big impact for his club team right now, but what is a more likely explanation of his lack of impact at the WC:

    1) He wasn’t ready physically, mentally or emotionally to contribute

    2) Everyone around him sucked so hard that he couldn’t perform (unlike Tim Weah, for instance, who did)

    I’m in the camp who believes Gio let down himself, the team and the fans DURING the biggest soccer competition in the world. Which in my mind is a way bigger deal than cryptically talking about coach-player conflict at a leadership conference weeks AFTER the tournament finished.

    I get that other people think Gregg screwed up his man management etc. I see that point of view - maybe there was a smarter way to handle an underperforming major talent like Reyna - but it’s much more debatable than the fact that Gio acted like an ass, which is why I find it ultimately less persuasive.
     
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  24. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. Gregg should have outed him for sulking. That's what happens all the time in other sports.
     
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  25. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like the current obsession with labeling everything toxic. It's one of those chic words to throw about. Not liking some posts in threads hasn't and won't stop me from being here. seems like the rest of you nut jobs are the same and there aren't that many of us overall.
     

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