Since 1986, has there been a better NT Tournament performance than Zidane's Euro 2000?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by SayWhatIWant, Feb 5, 2023.

  1. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    #1 SayWhatIWant, Feb 5, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2023
    For one, we have to examine the competitive landscape. It was perhaps (we can argue this, and I would like to hear your thoughts) a peak in the concentration of high-caliber NT squads. Several teams had all-time golden generations during this era. So, a highly competitive tournament.

    Zidane was very strong in the two matches in the group stages that he played. He was rested in the third, having gone up 2-0 - as did some other key players like Henry, a match that France lost.
    The matches were against Denmark and Czech Republic.
    Videos have been scrubbed off Youtube.
    In any case, obviously you would expect France to progress further as tournament favorites.
    Then came the performances against Spain, Portugal and Italy. The first two featured an absolute clinic in midfield with the opening goal from FK vs. Spain, and the game-deciding goal with a high-pressure penalty in golden time against Portugal.
    A good, but more conservative performance vs. Italy in a match whose goals were not decided via direct intervention from Zidane. The end result was a back-to-back major tournament win from France and a unanimous player of the tournament award.

    Unsurprisingly, Zidane topped the Opta index for the tournament for attacking midfielders:
    optaindexzidaneeuro.png

    He produced the second highest number of crosses for the tournament (despite being an AM):
    crosseseuro2000.png

    I will not provide the offsides table, but he does not appear in the Top 10. Henry has the second most offsides at 10 as compared to the 14 from Inzaghi. They are forwards of course, and Zidane played as a playmaker.
    The player on France with the most shots on target was Henry - the primary goalscoring outlet for France with 6 shots on target at 46% accuracy.

    Zidane was produced one of the greatest dribbling performances of all time in a major international tournament - the best all things considered since the 90s:
    dribblerseuro.png

    This includes an extraordinary 9 out 10 dribbles completed against Portugal - including a slalom dribble (something he never was the best at):

    Minute 6:36

    This translates to 4.97 dribbles per 90 (slightly more given the way the clock was handled with the golden goal moments - of which 2 occurred, or slightly less if we attribute 24 dribbles according to a OPTA revisit) at a success rate of 77%.

    For comparative reference:
    Messi World Cup 2014:
    5.6 successful dribbles per 90 (61.5% success rate) Source: Whoscored.


    [​IMG]
     
  2. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Further statistics I have uncovered:

    86% passing accuracy
    50% Duel success
    80 Touches per 90
     
  3. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020
    Messi 2022, Ronaldo 2002, Mbappe 2022.
     
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  4. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    I forgot you think Messi 2022 is above Maradona 86.

    Messi 2022
    Dribbles
    2.1 successful dribbles per 90 (45.6% success rate - poor)
    4.8 dispossession per 90 (excluding losses due to poor dribbling)
    Total dispossessions: 7.2 dispossessions per 90 (excluding missed passes)

    Zidane Euro 2000: 4.97 per 90 (77 success rate - outstanding)


    Passing
    Assists: 3
    80.9% success rate (very average)
    38 passes into final third 7th place in tournament (played most minutes)
    0 crosses (poor)
    Long ball pass completion rate 57.4% (poor)
    Progressive passes per 90 (for players that played at least 3 x 90min): 10th place
    41st
    for progressive distance of passing (stat mostly dominated by defenders)

    Goals ( 7 matches played)
    7 goals from 27 shots
    4 penalties
    1 missed penalty

    Progressive carry
    150.8m per 90
    (for players that played at least 3 x 90 min): 31th place

    Zidane progressive carry per 90: 178m per 90 (1st place)
     
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  5. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020
    I forgot you think Zidane is better dribbler than Messi.

    Cristina fanboys is such a disaster.... But even Zidane is better dribbler than your boy Cristina, its true, deal with it.
     
  6. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    How old are you? I am also not a Cristiano fan, nor is he in the discussion.
     
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
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  8. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    If you go by stat to stat then Neymar 2021 Copa America blows Zidane Euro 2000 out of water. Well, Messi 2014 WC, 2015, 2021 Copa, 2022 World Cup too. Then Hazard 2018 World Cup.

    Funny that you only compare Messi 35 years old dribbling stats to prime Zidane and don't count goals and asissts which Messi is way superior.

    Messi 2022: 3 non pen goals + 3 assists = 6 G+A
    Zidane 2000: 1 non pen goals + 1 assist = 2 G+A

    Messi is MOTM 5 times, from RO16 to final. Zidane only two times, QF and SF.

    See??? It's easy to use stats to favour Messi there.

    That's said Zidane Euro 2000, aside from the final, was fantastic. He played with flair and grace. Not many players have better campaigns than him and i think maybe he has the best Euro tournament till date.

    There are Platini 84, Van Basten 88, Xavi 08, Iniesta 12 which are around Zidane 2000 level but since Euro 2000 is the best Euro so Zidane edges here.
     
  9. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    I replied to the poster who said Messi 2022 - hence the comparison. Of course, we're not discussing comparing Zidane's dribbling peak to Messi's - Messi's dribbling peak was back when he was 21 years old anyway.
    As for MOTM performances, I do not put any credence in those - most people do not, and players think they are one big joke. They used to be voted in by the fans back in the day. I do not know what the system is now.

    I think Platini 84 is probably the one of highest interest. It was a goalscoring and passing clinic.
    As for the stat by stat comment - not entirely accurate, but I don't want to delve into this at the present.
     
  10. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    The question is about better NT tourmaments than Zidane 2000 and he replied Messi 2022. And there are quite many things to back up that.

    Back to thread, i think Messi 2014,2015,2021 and 2022, all his four tournaments are at least on par with Zidane 2000 Euro.

    Platini 84 had fantastic goalscoring records though i prefer Zidane's silky dribbles and his passing in Euro 2000 was probably best in his entire career, played great through balls and long balls.
     
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  11. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Romario 1994 for me. 5 goals (most of them fantastic goals), 2 incredible assists (that I can remember), 0 penalties, brilliant dribbling and overall ball skills, etc. (the only thing is that he wasn't as good in the final [had some nice runs though]; neither was Baggio in 1994 or Zidane in 2000, for that matter, as good in the final). In 2000, I was rooting for Figo and Portugal; however, Zidane was a class above and was immense when they faced each other. I am not taking into account tournaments like the Copa America or the Confederations Cup (I don't think they are at the level of the World Cup or the Euros; otherwise, there'd be other contenders, for example, Rivaldo was great in Copa America 1999).
     
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  12. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Oh yeah, how can i forget Romario 94. He had 1 assist instead of 2 though.
     
  13. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    I think Romario got the assist for Bebeto's goal against Cameroon (in addition to the goal in the second round). He should; that goal was all due to him. As it is, he does not get an assist for Rai's penalty against Russia; what a brilliant run that was.
     
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  14. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    YOU don't put credence in them. But other people do.
     
  15. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Uhh no.
    "Budweiser's Player of the Match trophy is awarded through a public vote on the FIFA+ website. The window opens between the 60th and 88th minute of each game, in which fans from across the globe can cast their thoughts for each match's star player."

    This is a popularity contest with no validity.
     
  16. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    Well, it's hard to compare players with different roles.

    I still believe that the highest individual level of a player was Maradona in the 1986 World Cup. At Eurocopa it was Platini in 1984. At Copa America, maybe Messi in 2021.

    Zidane was fantastic at Euro 00. As a game controller. Perhaps the best performance of all time from a pure playmaker. The semifinal against Portugal is a blessing to football.

    Perhaps a similar performance was Pirlo at the 2006 World Cup (3 of 7 man on the match, including semi-final and final) and Iniesta at Euro 2012 (also 3 man on the match, including final). Two fantastic tournaments from pure playmakers.

    But Zidane has more elegance and grace.
     
  17. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    I think Iniesta's 2012 is extremely underrated. That was a slightly more fatigued Spain, at the end of its cycle. Xavi was not performing at the same level and whatever tactical edge they had accrued back in the 08-10 period was largely dissipated. Much more challenging run for them and in that context, I found him more impressive.
     
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  18. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    That is fan vote.

    Still, only vs Croatia i think Alvarez should win that MOTM. In the final if Di Maria played till the end and Argentina likely to win in 90 mins then he is the MOTM. But since Di Maria was subbed off and the game went into PK shoot out, Messi played great till the end and he took that award.
     
  19. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    Xavi 2010 is up there imo.
     
  20. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That's a bit unfair. Figo was facing an ATG defensive NT line-up, while Zidane was facing.... (*checks note*)...Jose Luis Vidigal? I'm sure he was a decent player, but it's not exactly the same level as Petit, Deschamps, Vieira, and Lizarazu, is it?

    upload_2023-2-7_12-13-20.png
     
  21. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    France were tournament favorites, but as a defensive team, a lot of creative burden was on Zidane. Portugal also had a golden generation - that team is nothing to scoff at.
     
  22. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #23 lessthanjake, Feb 7, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
    I conceptualize Zidane’s Euro 2000 performance as being similar (both in level and in the types of things they did so well) to Iniesta’s Euro 2012 performance. I don’t know that these sorts of performances can exactly be put above great performances that also involved tons of direct goal contributions, though. But for purposes of this post, I’m just going to focus on Euros from 1988 onwards, where there’s not exactly many great performances with immense direct goal contributions. Focusing on just that, I don’t really know that there’s almost any Euro performances I’d put above those two in this time period.

    Probably Van Basten 1988 as @PDG1978 said. Griezmann 2016 is actually pretty underrated (as is everything Griezmann has done for France IMO—weird as it is, he’s a true NT great, I think, despite not being at that level for his clubs). Until the final, he was extremely decisive—being great in every KO stage match (he had 5 goals and 2 assists in those three 3 matches, though the assists were nothing overly special), and having also won a group-stage match with a 90th minute winner that clinched getting through the group. France did have a bit of an easy knockout-stage draw (and didn’t end up winning the tournament), but he did also score twice to beat the defending WC-champion Germany. So that one is in the running—though is held back some by France not winning a finals they should’ve won, with Griezmann not able to do a whole lot in that match. Other than that, there’s not exactly any really decisive Euro performances in this time period on a team that made a really deep run. So then, aside from Iniesta 2012, the comparisons would be things like Pirlo 2012, Xavi 2012 (which I actually think was probably better than 2008), and Figo 2000. But, of course, Zidane and Iniesta were already contemporaneously deemed to have been superior to those, so it probably makes sense to just go with that. Other than those, I’m not really sure there’s a Euro performance from 1988 onwards that I’d put on this sort of level.

    So, ultimately the bottom line is that, just talking Euros from 1988 onwards, I think Van Basten 1988 is above all, followed by a tier with Zidane 2000, Iniesta 2012, and Griezmann 2016. Griezmann doesn’t get enough respect as a NT player IMO. There’s actually almost no one that has a combination of three NT tournaments as good as his Euro 2016, WC 2018, and WC 2022.
     
  23. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There is a pretty wide gap between a team that is "nothing to scoff at" and a team that some consider a Golden Generation of one of the great NTs in the world. That team did just win a WC.

    Zidane having a creative burden is not, pun intended, a burden. It's not like he was asked to do something he wasn't particularly good at. This wasn't a Paul Scholes at left midfield moment. He was asked to do something he was a specialist at, and provided with the best foundation in the tournament.

    Look at it on the flip side. Zidane never had to face a defense as good as what Figo, Bergkamp, or Nedved had to face against France, until the final where Zidane was unable to have the same type of impact.

    Not to mention, playmaking is team reliant. Do you know what luxury it is to be supported by Petit, Deschamp, and Vieira who were very good at finding Zidane in the positions that he wanted? And Henry/Anelka is a pretty damn good duo for a playmaker to feed.
     
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  24. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    France 2000 were quite offensive minded team, not as defensive as they were in 1998. Thuram and Lizarazu bombed forward. In the middle with a skillful Vieira who assisted twice.


    Zidane as the main playmaker, upfront with dynamic Henry, Anelka, Trézéguet then veterans like Djorkaeff, Dugarry, super sub Pires. France averaged 1.75 xG per 90, that is more than France 84, France 98 and France 2018.

    So they weren't fully defensive team.
     
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